Shizue Takaki and Yoshie Seida Yamamoto | Interview 1 | August 6, 2014

FUKUMOTO: Okay. Today is August 6, 2014, and we're in Lihue, Kauai, with Shizue Takaki {Tanabe} and Grace Yoshie Yamamoto Seida. We're going to start at the very beginning with--just state your name, where you were born, and when you were born.

YAMAMOTO: Okay. I was born Yoshie Seida, born in Makaweli Camp Four. It used to be Makaweli before the plantation was Makaweli. Right now it's Olokele, because it's--Makaweli turned to Kaumakani. So you had the Kaumakani village, so all the camps--we had Camp One, Camp Two, Camp Three, Camp Four, Camp Five, Camp Six, Camp Seven, Camp Eight, Camp Nine, Camp Ten. So all the camps were dissolved and 00:01:00moved to Kaumakani, so--if possible. But some people moved to Honolulu on the mainland, so the Kaumakani people are all from these different camps, Camp Ten.

So we had to teach ourselves to get acquainted with those people, because they lived in different camps and we lived in different camps, so we had to mingle and get acquainted with them and make new friends and new neighbors. It was kind of hard, because there were so many Filipinos among the Japanese. My neighbors were mostly Filipinos, but they were good people I really got along real good with. But when war broke out they sort of stayed away from us for a while, because they thought Japan was wrong to attack Pearl Harbor. But then it was 00:02:00just like that for a while, but they understood why Japan did it and we are not to blame, our people here. And so they came down and we got to be friends again. But it went on for quite a while. And when the soldiers came in on the truck, it was really sad, because they see us and they say, "Jap, Jap, Jap." It was just really hard for us to take that "Jap," because we are Americans. And my mother was crying all the time when they call her Jap. "Get off the road, get off the road. Go someplace where you're wanted. You're not wanted here. Get out. Get 00:03:00out." It went on for quite a while.

FUKUMOTO: Yeah, that must have been hard.

YAMAMOTO: Yeah, and the Filipinos--they really were nice people. We liked them. We got along really good, real well with them. I don't know her, but we were surrounded--my neighbors were all mostly Filipinos.

DUNHAM: Way back when you were in the separate camps, were they--was it just Japanese and Filipinos?

YAMAMOTO: No, no.

DUNHAM: Or were there other groups too?

YAMAMOTO: But I remember Japanese and Filipinos were in one camp, but the Portuguese--I don't know. They were considered white, so they had Portuguese camp. We used to call it Portagee Camp, where all the Portuguese stay. And I think there were about maybe thirty-five Portuguese families. But the 00:04:00Filipinos/Japanese--I can't remember how many families in our camp. But my neighbors were mostly Japanese and some were Okinawans. My mother's best friend was an Okinawan woman. And when she cooked Japanese food, she would bring a pot full for the family and they enjoyed it, because their cooking is very different from ours.

FUKUMOTO: Right, yeah.

DUNHAM: Did you ever eat Okinawan food?

YAMAMOTO: Yes, I like it.

FUKUMOTO: Yeah? What do you remember? What Okinawan dishes did you eat?

YAMAMOTO: It's about the same, but the taste is very different.

FUKUMOTO: Yeah, a little bit hot.

YAMAMOTO: It is, yeah. But I liked--they were good people. We got along real well. And the Filipinos were always good. They were good people.

DUNHAM: Were these sugarcane plantation camps?

YAMAMOTO: Plantation camps, yes.

DUNHAM: And did you work in the fields?

YAMAMOTO: Yeah, and my parents worked. My mother and father worked in the field. My father was a--what they call it--what is a luna?

TAKATI: Luma?

FUKUMOTO: Well, a luna is a kind--

TAKATI: Huh? Luna.

YAMAMOTO: My father was a luna.

TAKATI: Luna is a--luna.

YAMAMOTO: He used to keep time for the workers, yeah.

TAKATI: The workers had a supervisor, like.

YAMAMOTO: He got paid a little bit more, but those days pay was $24. My father earned, doing that, $24 cash and he had to feed how many mouths, how many children? Five children and two adults, so seven.

DUNHAM: A month? A month, yeah.

YAMAMOTO: A month.

DUNHAM: And often the Portuguese were the bosses, the managers?

YAMAMOTO: Usually it was the Portuguese, yeah.

TAKATI: They mostly was a supervisor, Portuguese, yeah, yeah.

YAMAMOTO: To me it was good time, because everything was cheap. It wasn't expensive the way it is now. And we didn't have TV. We had radio--we had a small radio, that is. That's the only thing we had to hear the outside world, what the outside world is doing.

FUKUMOTO: Right. So you guys walked barefoot a lot of places when you were young? Were you barefoot?

YAMAMOTO: Barefoot. Went to school barefoot.

FUKUMOTO: And it's hot too, right? Kauai is so hot.

YAMAMOTO: Yeah, rain or shine.

FUKUMOTO: It didn't matter.

YAMAMOTO: Went to school barefoot, yes.

FUKUMOTO: That sounds fun.

DUNHAM: Well, why don't we go ahead and get your early story too, of when and where you were born.

TAKATI: I was born in Schofield Barracks, Waimea, Oahu, Wahiawa. Wahiawa. Yeah.

DUNHAM: In what year?

TAKATI: Nineteen nineteen, yeah. And then I was five years old, two haoles came to adopt me. They said they don't have children. One, she say, they cannot get any more children. So they came to adopt me, but I was so scared. So I said, "Please," I tell my parents, "Please don't give me away." That's all I remember.

DUNHAM: Would that have been like they would have paid to adopt you? Or do you know how it worked?

TAKATI: No. They wanted to adopt me because they said they cannot get children, and then we had five girls in the family, so they say you have too much. So my father say--any one you like, I will give it to you. Then they chose me. And 00:08:00then I was so afraid! You know, I don't--what this haole is--so I said to my parents to please don't give me away, because I don't know them and then I was so afraid. So finally they gave up, but they were so nice to me! They brought for me a baby doll. Oh, I'll never forget till today.

DUNHAM: Did you stay with them at all?

TAKATI: No, no, no. I said no, please, don't give me away. I was born in Wahiawa. My father was a laundryman, yeah, going in Wahiawa, the Schofield Barracks, go in and out, so we were able to go in and out every place. Yeah.

DUNHAM: When had your parents come to Hawaii, do you know? To the barracks.

TAKATI: Oh from--my father came from Hiroshima and my mother came from Yamaguchi, and they worked the next door--and then they met together and they 00:09:00got married.

DUNHAM: In Japan?

TAKATI: Yeah, well, that all was near the Schofield Barracks.

DUNHAM: Oh okay--oh, here, okay, okay.

TAKATI: Then I went to Japan. Nineteen--I forgot when--but when the first bridge, the new bridge they built, Wahiawa town, the day I left to Japan, with the whole family, went back to Japan. Then they stayed back one year. They couldn't take the weather, so they came back.

DUNHAM: What was the weather like?

TAKATI: To me it wasn't bad, but they're not a farmer, you see. So my father cannot be a farmer. So I guess that's the most reason I think. So they came here.

DUNHAM: Was that in Hiroshima?

TAKATI: Yeah, Hiroshima, way in the country, yeah. We maybe had about {eleven?} house. We stayed out way in the country. And they left me over there. And then I 00:10:00grew up until about eighteen.

DUNHAM: Who were you staying with?

TAKATI: I was with my grandfather and uncle, yeah. Then I grew up and then 1936 I came here. Then I started to work. Those days you had the Waimea Hotel. I used to work as a waitress or clean--

DUNHAM: Was it your choice to come back to Hawaii?

TAKATI: Yes, I wanted to come back.

DUNHAM: Why did you want to come back?

TAKATI: Because when I came about seventeen, eighteen, they all come around. They try to let you get married to somebody. What they call that--{chipaiswa?}.

YAMAMOTO: Picture bride. Picture bride.

TAKATI: Somebody also coming like that--oh they say, oh yes, it's a good girl over there. You're going to get married to--they going to have to find somebody else if--but I didn't want to be a farmer, so I came here. Then I work Waimea 00:11:00Hotel. Then after that we couldn't make a go, because the pay was so cheap. So then we start a--my father said he's going to start a laundry. There's a--one man, a Filipino man, he said he's going to sell the laundry, so we bought a share of the laundry. Then he bought our machines and all kinds of--and then I started to work as a--then--

DUNHAM: Can I ask what was it like--so you were in Japan from age five to eighteen? For--say five or six?

TAKATI: I was so young, only about sixteen.

DUNHAM: So what was it like coming back to Hawaii from Japan?

TAKATI: Because I was born in Hawaii. That's all I knew, what is Hawaii. When you change the language--I forgot how to talk English. That was the hardest part for me.

DUNHAM: Right. So how did you deal with that?

TAKATI: Oh well--I'm coming back to my parents, so I didn't feel bad. But it was--in Japan I was living in the sticks, just like a Kokee in the mountain. So it was--over here it was civilized. But it wasn't that bad, because it's my home, the place I was born. But I had no friends, and once--I was Wahiawa and when I came back I had to come to Kauai now.

DUNHAM: Okay, why is that? Why did you have to come to Kauai?

TAKATI: Because I didn't want to get married in Japan.

DUNHAM: Oh, okay, okay. But not Oahu, but anyway Kauai.

TAKATI: Yeah, yeah. Then from Oahu because we had a hard time, so they moved to Kauai and my father was a cook. And then I came here, and then I was working in Waimea Hotel, used to get hotel there. I was working as a kitchen and all kind 00:13:00of things. Then we couldn't make a go, so he bought a laundry, somebody sold the laundry, so we took over and he start the laundry man.

FUKUMOTO: Oh, where was that? Where was the laundromat? What town?

TAKATI: No, they don't have--but Waimea. Over here. Kauai, Waimea Hotel--I mean, Waimea is the laundry, right by the old bridge. They still have the building there. Then I worked there, then I--I didn't know how to talk English good. But only till the customers come in, we cannot make a go. So I have to go to the camp, to Filipino camp. So I went to Makaweli, you know her, where she was born, Camp Two, Camp Four, Camp Five, Camp Six, Camp Seven, Camp Eight, Camp Nine. I used to go to all in the--

DUNHAM: To get all the laundry?

TAKATI: Yeah, to pick up the--the woolen pants and the coat and the jacket.

DUNHAM: How did you carry it all?

TAKATI: No, they'd give you the pants and then we write the name. I could write in Japanese and then bring home and mark in ink with all the names.

DUNHAM: Right, but it was a lot to carry. Did you have a wagon?

TAKATI: No, no. Not that much. But we had a--what do you call--not a truck, but a van, a small van. Yeah, so--because not too many people like to wash clothes, you know, those days. It was all that kind of plantation men, so very seldom they wear the good pants, so only we take the good pants. And then I stayed there during the--after the war--I mean during the war I used to go to the camp, and then I went to Waimea Camp, Makaweli Camp, Camp Kekaha Mauka they called 00:15:00that, way up in the mountain. They used to get about twenty house. I used to go till there and I should ride the van.

DUNHAM: Wow! What was the road like back then?

FUKUMOTO: [laughing] Yeah! Dirt?

TAKATI: And then the road is down there.

YAMAMOTO: You don't need a license, right?

FUKUMOTO: [laughing]

TAKATI: Yeah.

DUNHAM: How did you learn to drive the van?

TAKATI: Well, my father teach me how. The first thing was--

YAMAMOTO: Everybody--I remember my brother drove a car but he never had a license.

TAKATI: And it's not automatic.

DUNHAM: Right! So did you ever have any close calls or accidents?

TAKATI: Long time I learn, then I used to go on the zig-zag roads to Kekaha.

DUNHAM: All by yourself?

TAKATI: Yeah, but I never was so--it wasn't scary, but now if I need to go up there? No, no. I cannot go. [laughter]

DUNHAM: Did they have to pay extra living way up there? That was a long way to go. Did you charge more for--?

TAKATI: No, no. The same thing.

DUNHAM: The same price, okay.

TAKATI: And then we went all around Makaweli Camp, all around there, all is well known, but the only thing, the first time when I went I cannot talk to Filipinos--I mean Japanese--I mean English, because I forgot about English too much. So I just talk--I say oh, the Filipinos, they talk--I will oh, {na pinta se balasa makatoli?} or something like that. So I don't know what they are talking about. I was so afraid. So I go write down--oh, what they talk--{na pinta se balasa, como sati?} Oh. They would talk to me. I go write in Japanese. Then I had a friend, a Filipino, what is this and what is that? That's how I learned about Filipinos.

DUNHAM: Oh, so you would write it down phonetically from what you heard, and your Filipino friend would read it and translate?

TAKATI: Yeah, and he'd teach me what is that. Yeah, then Makaweli, and I can do 00:17:00Waimea, I can do Kekaha. I know every most or--everybody I know. Till today I know some of them, but most of them went back to Philippines, so I don't know. But oh, we had hard life. I had a good life, but it's--then the war came. The war came, they say, the Waimea--the {______?} of people, they never bother us--but the Waimea Camp and Kekaha Camp, I used to go every day. This kind of knife. They sharpen every day, like this, sharpen. And then one Filipino old man came to me, "{Shakan?}?" I said, "What?" You know why they sharpen their--I guess I know what, but he say, when the Japanese are going to land here, they're going to--so we had to evacuate to the mountain. [a cat meows in the background] So he told me when the Japanese land over here, don't you run away. He say you 00:18:00stay in the house and lock the place or you stay in the shelter and don't come out. Don't tell nobody, but you do that yourself. So--then the war came.

DUNHAM: So that was before Pearl Harbor that they had talked about that?

TAKATI: Yeah, there's Pearl Harbor, yeah.

DUNHAM: No, was it before Pearl Harbor that they had talked about if Japan--

TAKATI: I was working in Waimea, yeah.

YAMAMOTO: Yeah, yeah. Yes. Okay.

TAKATI: Yeah, so I knew a little about Filipinos and then the war came and it was all very sad--I couldn't believe Japan would attack Kauai! They say no, we say no, ho! Everybody get--the face was all red. I guess--I don't know why, but everybody's face was all red. I think maybe they're nervous or something, yeah. And then we hardly talked to anybody. But I used to get a short wave radio, and 00:19:00then I listened to the radio. And then the old man used to come in, "Listen to me," what he tell me, so I explained to them. And then in those day we cannot go put the light on, so cover all, black out the windows and doors and all.

YAMAMOTO: Yeah, we used to--because you cannot--we couldn't afford to buy the material. Everybody was buying the black material to cover the windows, because at night they don't want you to put a light on if you don't have the black.

DUNHAM: So what if you couldn't afford the material? What did you do?

TAKATI: Black cloth.

YAMAMOTO: We got newspaper. You can--we put newspaper, thick newspaper, tacked it so that it--

TAKATI: Yeah, tacked it under windows so that you can put the light on.

YAMAMOTO: Yeah, so that we had light in the house at night. If not, you cannot put a light on. They didn't want the lights on.

FUKUMOTO: Did you guys have to get rid of any of your Japanese items? Afraid of losing anything that was Japanese?

YAMAMOTO: Yes. My father had a son. He was in the Russian-Japanese war, and he kept a sword that he captured seven Russians.

FUKUMOTO: Oh, wow!

YAMAMOTO: All by himself. And he said the Russian soldiers were hungry and they were just huddled around the fire and nothing to eat for so many days. They were hungry and they couldn't move because they were too hungry. So my father said he had some musubi in his bag, and so he gave it to them and that's all they ate, the musubi--it's only rice, nothing else. But they were happy to eat something, to have something to eat. But they were really grateful and he said, "Oh, the Russians and Japanese were supposed to be fighting each other, but here I am 00:21:00with the Russians and we're eating musubi." [laughter]

TAKATI: They were nice soldiers, the American soldiers. They were really nice people, yeah. They never make any trouble for us. They live in a camp, they make a tent, yeah--they live in there. And then we cannot go outside, I mean curfew time, but I have a special pass, so I used to go until six o'clock, we could go.

DUNHAM: A special pass because of your laundry work?

TAKATI: Yeah, yeah. So I had to deliver clothes and go get the clothes.

FUKUMOTO: So you were doing laundry during the war still?

TAKATI: Yeah, yeah.

FUKUMOTO: And you would drive in the daytime?

TAKATI: Oh yeah, I used to drive any kind of place, yeah.

YAMAMOTO: Without a license. [laughing]

FUKUMOTO: Not nighttime though, right? You wouldn't drive during the nighttime though, would you? Because that would be--

TAKATI: No, never had to drive at night before--few cars anyway, going to the camp. All Filipinos camp, but they never attack me, but they always make a knife, they sharpen the knife, see? When I sharpen a knife and it's a knife I 00:22:00say, what are they doing with a knife? I knew already, in case of anything they cannot kill us. Then one old man comes to camp, "Come, I tell you something." I say, "What?" He said, "When the war starts, Japanese soldiers land here, don't run away. Even if they tell you to go run away in the mountain. Don't move. Just stay in the house and lock the house or stay in a hole and don't come out."

DUNHAM: Did that scare you when you heard that?

TAKATI: That was a Filipino.

DUNHAM: I know, but was it scary to think that you--?

TAKATI: Oh yes, because he said Japan was going to land over here. Then I didn't tell anybody because I was so afraid. But we stay in the house anyway, and then we locked the house. And then I went to the camp, the man tell me, he said, when you come over here, when the soldiers land here, don't come around. You stay at the house--and they sharpen the knife every day. This kind of knife, sharpening 00:23:00the knife, every day. They don't tell us anything, they sharpen the knife. Look. [laughter]

DUNHAM: It sounds a little scary.

FUKUMOTO: It does sound--[laughing]

YAMAMOTO: How sharp can you get it?

TAKATI: But they never attacked me one time.

DUNHAM: Did you know of them having run-ins with other Japanese Americans?

TAKATI: Yes, but they never--

DUNHAM: What kind of things did you hear of?

TAKATI: They don't say anything.

DUNHAM: Oh, okay. But did they get in fights or worse?

TAKATI: No, they don't say anything. We don't talk about anything. But the old men tell me, don't--when the Japanese land here, don't--

FUKUMOTO: Yeah, can I ask, when you were talking about the short wave radio and learning about--after Pearl Harbor. Who was on the other end of the short wave radio? What were you listening to?

TAKATI: Oh, we just heard the--only we hear the radio, that's all.

DUNHAM: Is it a Japanese broadcast? Or no, no.

TAKATI: No, no, no. Only we just hear ourselves. Yeah, we no contact nobody.

DUNHAM: So who are you talking with?

TAKATI: Nobody. We don't talk to--only on the radio. We never contact nobody, but we just listen to the radio on the {one hour ?} then off. Then we don't tell nobody what we had heard, but I did hear too much.

DUNHAM: But from where?

TAKATI: On the radio, yeah, from the short wave to come I think about eight o'clock to nine o'clock or something, short--we can hear the Japan short waves from--I don't know from where. I don't know from where the radio is come out maybe. That's all I know. But after that we never hear.

DUNHAM: Okay, and Grace, I know you talked about after, but do you remember where you were when you first heard of Pearl Harbor?

YAMAMOTO: Yes, I was in the kitchen. My mother and I were having coffee. We were having breakfast, coffee, and my sister, who lived next door came running and 00:25:00said, "War, war!" And I said, "What are you talking about, war?" "War! Japan attacked Pearl Harbor." She said, "Put the radio on, put the radio on." We had the radio, the box radio. So my brother quickly put the radio on. President Roosevelt, where's the president? He said, "We are at war," he said. "We are at war with Japan. Japan attacked Pearl Harbor. We are at war." He kept saying we are at war. Oh, it was just scary! We were just so scared. We couldn't do anything. We just sat there by the table and couldn't drink our coffee.

TAKATI: We just sit down--ah, aah. [rapidly expelling breath]

FUKUMOTO: In shock, yeah.

YAMAMOTO: And my mother just cried and cried. I still remember. She just cried and she said, "How can Japan do that? America has been so good to us, giving us 00:26:00work like this. And to think that Japan attacked Pearl Harbor. I cannot believe it." And she and my father came to Kauai to earn money, but the money they earned was only $24 a month, the plantation. And how can they send the $24 to Japan? They had five children, so there are seven altogether. It was really hard to send money to Japan, you know? But my grandparents never expected my parents to send money, because they knew the condition--it was really hard to send money, to save money, with such a low pay--$24 a month? That's gosh, what can you buy?

DUNHAM: What were you doing at that time? Had you gone--you'd been working in the fields? Or had you been going to school?

YAMAMOTO: I was--this is just when the war broke out?

DUNHAM: Forty-one, yeah.

YAMAMOTO: I graduated from Waimea High School. I was nineteen and Pearl Harbor was attacked.

DUNHAM: June of '41 is when you graduated?

YAMAMOTO: Yeah.

DUNHAM: Yeah, okay.

YAMAMOTO: So we just--we just couldn't do anything! We can't believe that Japan would do that. And we were just dumbfounded. We are asking each other--what did we do? What did we do for Japan to attack? And my mother just cried. She couldn't say anything. She just couldn't believe that Japan would do that.

DUNHAM: You mentioned a sword that your father had. Did he bury that? Or what happened with it?

YAMAMOTO: That's the sword--it was about--the blade, I remember was like this, 00:28:00that long. And the handle was only about that. When war broke out there was a bachelor; he was our neighbor. And he said to my parents, "Let me keep the sword for you. I will hide it where the soldiers will not find it." When war broke out all the American soldiers went house to house looking for swords and guns, and if they saw it they would confiscate. So my father had the sword. I don't remember what he did with the sword. All I remember is this neighbor, who was a bachelor, he offered to keep the sword for my parents, and when war was over my 00:29:00mother went to him, "Can I have my sword back?" And he said, "No, I won't give you back." And my mother said, "Why? You promised." And he said, "No, I want to have sex with you before I give you back the sword."

FUKUMOTO: Oh no!

DUNHAM: Wow.

YAMAMOTO: And my mother said, "No, you keep the sword. You keep the sword."

FUKUMOTO: Oh man!

YAMAMOTO: So I don't know what that man did with the--

DUNHAM: Did you father know?

YAMAMOTO: Yes. My father was there. And my father couldn't believe that a man--after all he said, "I will keep it for you and I will hide it for you and when the war is over I will give it back to you, but he never did." So I don't know what he did with the sword.

DUNHAM: Wow. Now, there were a lot of bachelors around at the time, a lot more men than women. Are there other stories like that?

TAKATI: Oh yeah, all kinds.

YAMAMOTO: Oh yes, all--

TAKATI: But they were so nice people.

YAMAMOTO: I think you will hear all kinds of stories, yes.

DUNHAM: But that kind of--that's a pretty direct request to make of the family.

TAKATI: There were young people, but they were nice people.

DUNHAM: Okay, nice people, but a lot more men than women, yeah?

TAKATI: Oh yeah, well, some women go to--

DUNHAM: Did you, were you--either of you dating at the time? Did you date?

TAKATI: No, I never had. No.

YAMAMOTO: I was still in high school.

TAKATI: We were too young, I guess.

DUNHAM: Did you go to the movies, the Waimea Theater, before the war?

YAMAMOTO: Yes, during the war, yes.

TAKATI: No, I never did go. No.

DUNHAM: Oh, okay.

YAMAMOTO: I went to Waimea High School, and now and then they would have matinee on Fridays. It has to be a good movie, and they would say oh, everybody who is interested in going to the matinee, it was fifteen cents, and Friday was the day to go to the matinee. Whoever wants to go to the matinee, go to the matinee. All 00:31:00those who didn't want to go to the matinee because they didn't have the money, they would go home. They can go home. But we liked to go to the movies, to the matinee. We looked forward to that. I don't know why.

DUNHAM: Was it Japanese films? Or US films? Or both?

YAMAMOTO: US, US films, yeah.

DUNHAM: US--did you ever go--we've heard other folks talk about going to be able to see Japanese films sometimes at the Waimea--

FUKUMOTO: Before the war, before the war.

DUNHAM: Before the war

YAMAMOTO: Yes, yes. Before the war.

DUNHAM: Yeah, did you go to those?

YAMAMOTO: Before the war I watched at the theater in Hanapepe, they used to show Japanese movies and we all used to go. It was so cheap you know. Sometimes it was ten cents actually. [laughing]

DUNHAM: Okay, and then during the war they didn't have Japanese films, right? I assume, yeah.

YAMAMOTO: During the war I didn't see any Japanese films.

DUNHAM: What other things happened? I know the Japanese--you were already through school, but did you go to Japanese language school as a child?

YAMAMOTO: Yes, we did go to Japanese language school. We go to English school in 00:32:00the morning and then two o'clock--Japanese school started at three, three to four.

DUNHAM: Saturdays too?

YAMAMOTO: Saturdays, yes. Saturdays also, yeah, from seven to twelve I think, no?

TAKATI: Mm-hmm.

YAMAMOTO: Yeah, Japanese school, we used to go. But after, I think, the Japanese degree--I didn't know anything. I didn't know anything.

DUNHAM: What do you mean?

YAMAMOTO: I mean--

TAKATI: You don't talk too much, so you forget.

YAMAMOTO: Yeah, because where are you going to talk--when we went home after school we spoke English to our parents. And so our parents spoke broken English.

DUNHAM: Or pidgin.

YAMAMOTO: I felt that I should have stayed home and do the study books as I'm going to school. I wasn't a good student. [laughter]

DUNHAM: That would have been more--okay, okay. Fair enough.

YAMAMOTO: So, but anyway--

FUKUMOTO: But during the war years the Japanese language schools were all closed, right?

YAMAMOTO: All closed, yes, all closed.

TAKATI: They all closed down, yeah. And the ministers, the Japanese ministers, the Buddhist ministers, they all got sent, what they called--

DUNHAM: Incarcerated in the camps? Or

TAKATI: Yeah, yeah, they do that, yeah.

YAMAMOTO: Yeah.

DUNHAM: And then so did you guys grow up going to the Buddhist temple?

YAMAMOTO: The what?

TAKATI: I was a Christian.

DUNHAM: You were a Christian growing up? Okay. And how about you? Did you grow up with religion, going to church or temple?

YAMAMOTO: No, no.

TAKATI: But they didn't have any in those days. All the ministers were taken away.

YAMAMOTO: We had some--oh yes, we had after--

DUNHAM: But before the war, before the war.

YAMAMOTO: Oh, before the war, yeah.

TAKATI: Before the war yes, they used to have, yeah.

YAMAMOTO: We had until eighth grade, Japanese language school.

DUNHAM: Okay. Oh no, but I was asking about temple--

FUKUMOTO: Religion.

DUNHAM: Religion. Were you religious?

YAMAMOTO: Oh, religion. Yes, we had Sunday school. Buddhist.

DUNHAM: Were you a Buddhist?

YAMAMOTO: I was a Buddhist.

DUNHAM: Yeah, which temple did you go to?

YAMAMOTO: The temple was in Wahiawa, Soto Mission, {Joto?} Mission?

TAKATI: I'm not, so I don't know, because--

DUNHAM: You never were--you grew up Christian?

TAKATI: Christian, yeah.

YAMAMOTO: I grew up--

DUNHAM: Okay, in Japan too?

TAKATI: Yeah--Japan we were Buddhist, but I never go to Buddhist, because I was baptized seven days old, Wahiawa, I was baptized. So I never did go to Buddhist temple.

DUNHAM: Okay, okay, interesting.

YAMAMOTO: Yeah, I was born a Buddhist, so I was a Buddhist until--gee, until war broke out.

DUNHAM: And then what?

YAMAMOTO: Then I met Father Ed--what's his name? Father Ed--the bus driver, Ed. He's a Christian.

TAKATI: Huh? I forgot. Is he--he was Christian?

YAMAMOTO: We called him Father Ed, and he baptized me and some other people. So 00:35:00I was a Christian from not too long--I was born a Buddhist, but I was a Christian--gee, I can't--gee, what year was that? Maybe five years, five years. You know Father Ed?

DUNHAM: I don't.

YAMAMOTO: Oh, okay. He drives a bus. He still drives, yeah.

DUNHAM: So was that during the war, or after the war?

YAMAMOTO: No, after the war.

DUNHAM: So you became a Christian, but only for a short time?

YAMAMOTO: I--me?

DUNHAM: Yeah.

YAMAMOTO: I became a Christian only--gee, not too long.

DUNHAM: Did you go back to Buddhism then?

YAMAMOTO: I did not go back to Buddhist, but my in-laws, my parents, my in-laws they stayed with the Buddhists. They were Buddhists. But I did not want to be a 00:36:00Buddhist. I always wanted to be a Christian. I don't know why. But when I was growing up I always said I want to be a Christian, not a Buddhist. So in my mind I always thought well, I'm going to be a Christian, not a Buddhist. So I grew up thinking--but I grew up as a Buddhist because I was baptized Buddhist. My parents baptized me when I was born.

DUNHAM: Yeah, what do you think made you want to be a Christian?

YAMAMOTO: Well, I read so much about the Bible and Christians, how Jesus survived and how he died, how he was crucified. I saw the movies. When I saw all that I thought I have to be a Christian, not a Buddhist.

DUNHAM: Was that in your English schools that you learned about Jesus and the Bible? Was it in school? No?

YAMAMOTO: No, you have to do it yourself, yeah. I bought a Bible and read it.

DUNHAM: Well, speaking of when you were growing up and dreaming of things, when you were young girls, what did you each think you might do or be when you grew up? Did you have any--do you remember what you thought you might--

YAMAMOTO: I never thought I would be a Christian. I never thought I would be a Christian. Because somehow--my parents were very strict. They believed in Buddha. So we had three Buddhist ministers come, in Bon season, yeah. And it was hard for them, because when they come you have to give them money, offer money. But they stayed on and--

DUNHAM: So they came from out of Kauai, outside Kauai? For the Bon festival?

YAMAMOTO: No, the Buddhists? No. From Waimea and Lihue, I think, yeah.

TAKATI: Lihue.

YAMAMOTO: There were three Buddhist ministers that came, in the Bon season, summertime. And every time they come they don't expect any monetary gift, but my parents gave a little bit, what they can afford they give it to them. This went on quite some time, yeah. I don't know how long.

DUNHAM: [to Shizue Takaki] Did you have an idea when you were young--you were back in Japan, but did you have a dream of what you would--

TAKATI: No, I was Christian. I knew I was baptized, and my father was a--when we were young he wasn't Christian. But at the Depression, Waimea--oh! [with feeling] The first depression was 1920-something, and he lost a job you see, so 00:39:00he didn't know what to do. Then he came a Christian, he came a really Chris[tian]--and then we moved to Kauai. That's why I came to Kauai too. Yeah, yeah. I worked in--

DUNHAM: Okay, did he have--through his Christianity did he have job opportunities? Or what led him--

TAKATI: No, it has no--no other--religion has got nothing to do with the job. Yeah, yeah. But he was a good Christian. Until after the war, he was Christian, then he took one Christian man to Israel and he went around the world with that man.

FUKUMOTO: Wow!

TAKATI: And then he was--my father was a good man. And then we were--the whole family is Christian till today, yeah.

DUNHAM: When you were teenagers--when you came back, here on Kauai, I know times were challenging, but what did you do for fun?

TAKATI: What?

DUNHAM: What did you do for fun?

TAKATI: I don't remember because--

YAMAMOTO: I know what I did--went to dances on Saturdays in the clubhouse. [laughing] And sometimes in the community hall, the community hall was a movie theater, a party place, and whatever, yeah. If the people want to have a party, a big party, this is where they went, to the community hall, have a big party. And if you want to see a movie, that's where you went, to the movies over there, yeah.

DUNHAM: Did the dances have live music or records, or both?

YAMAMOTO: Both. You remember Charlie Kaneyama?

DUNHAM: No.

YAMAMOTO: Charlie Kaneyama--

TAKATI: He's a good ukulele player.

YAMAMOTO: From Kekaha. He had a band, about five or six people. They would play the music. And we paid a quarter to get in to dance. It was cheap! A quarter.

DUNHAM: And what was the make-up of--who came to the dance? Was this all 00:41:00Japanese Americans? Or mixed?

YAMAMOTO: Mixed. Filipinos, Portuguese, haoles, Japanese--everybody.

DUNHAM: Did the soldiers come during the war?

TAKATI: No, those days never had the--

YAMAMOTO: No, when the soldiers were here--

DUNHAM: Okay, this is later. This is before, you're saying.

YAMAMOTO: --we did not have, we did not have dance, public dance then.

DUNHAM: Oh, you didn't. So all during the war years you weren't allowed--you had a curfew and you were not allowed?

YAMAMOTO: Oh yes--I remember one time I did go to a--

DUNHAM: USO?

YAMAMOTO: It was a dance. It was during the day. It was on Sunday and it was from twelve to three, I think. The public is invited. So I saw the soldiers coming, all the camp people--everybody was there dancing, having a great time. During the wartime it was hard to get good shoes. But I don't know what kind of shoes I had. [laughing] I don't remember having good sandals to wear to the 00:42:00dance. I think I wore oxfords--something like this, oxfords, to dance. It was hard to dance in the oxfords.

DUNHAM: Did you guys hear of the Kauai Morale Committee? Or other groups that were formed during the war here on Kauai?

TAKATI: No, they didn't have any here during the war.

YAMAMOTO: No, we did not have.

DUNHAM: Yeah, I think there were some that were around. It may be--I know you were both very young. But there was also a thing called the Mother/Girls' Forum. Did you ever hear of that or the Kauai Volunteers?

YAMAMOTO: Kauai Volunteers--

TAKATI: No, I don't know anything about that.

FUKUMOTO: Where people help putting barbed wire around the island? You guys remember the barbed wire, right?

DUNHAM: Yeah, clear--

YAMAMOTO: Oh yes, the barbed wires, the beach, along the beach. They were all barbed wires. The soldiers put it, the soldiers put it. You couldn't go swimming, and if you want to go swimming you have to get a permit from 00:43:00the--where you lived. We lived in Kaumakani, and so we had to get permit. My brother had to get permit from the office to go swimming or deep-sea diving. He loved to spear, so he went to the beach almost every day, every day after work.

DUNHAM: So did he have to get a permit every day, or how did it work?

YAMAMOTO: No, he would get it for one month, yes. By the month.

DUNHAM: And did you go swimming at all during those years?

YAMAMOTO: I still don't know how to swim.

DUNHAM: You don't know, okay.

FUKUMOTO: [to Shizue Takaki] You don't know how to swim either?

TAKATI: No, no.

DUNHAM: This is a common refrain we're hearing.

FUKUMOTO: Yes, very common.

TAKATI: We never go down the beach, no.

YAMAMOTO: I'm ninety-two and I still don't know how to swim. But a friend of mine, we were classmates from first grade and when we were in the fifth grade she said, "I'm going to teach you, Yoshie, how to swim!" Okay. So this was Friday at school and she said, "I'll see you tomorrow at the reservoir." So I 00:44:00said okay. So I went to the reservoir and she was swimming already. She swims, good swimmer, fifth grade only. And she swam and swam to the middle of the reservoir and she disappeared.

FUKUMOTO: [sharp intake of breath] So that made you never want to go in the water. [laughing] That was probably like--

YAMAMOTO: Never.

FUKUMOTO: So really! And you were there.

YAMAMOTO: She just disappeared.

FUKUMOTO: Oh! That's--

YAMAMOTO: There were three boys from the camp and they went in to look for her. They could not find her.

FUKUMOTO: Oh, that's--how sad. Oh.

YAMAMOTO: And to this day I never heard that she was found.

FUKUMOTO: That's really very sad.

YAMAMOTO: We were good friends, and her name was Lily, L-I-L-Y [spells]--Filipina girl. I miss her. She was such a good girl.

FUKUMOTO: Wow! That's unreal. So you don't remember any of these organizations, 00:45:00of having folks around you volunteer for the effort, or women who were air raids--anyone who volunteered to--

DUNHAM: Air wardens?

FUKUMOTO: --look for planes or lights, would go to the neighbor's house to tell people that's--

DUNHAM: Make sure--like you talked about having the newspaper up? The people who made sure--who were the people who made sure you had the blackout in your homes?

TAKATI: Oh, they have a blackout notice in the paper, and they say around that, when you hear the siren that you have to go to your home and you left the house or go to the--what they called the--

DUNHAM: Bomb shelter?

TAKATI: Yeah, shelter, yeah.

DUNHAM: Did you guys go down into the bomb shelter a lot?

TAKATI: Yeah.

YAMAMOTO: Yeah, bomb--oh, are you speaking of the shelter?

DUNHAM: Yeah, yeah.

YAMAMOTO: Gosh--we saved gallons and gallons of water and canned goods, a can 00:46:00opener and a knife and a cutting board. We just loaded the shelter with all this but never used.

DUNHAM: Yeah, some people said as the war went on that the sirens continued to go off, but they stopped going into the shelters because they stopped--

YAMAMOTO: Yes, yes.

DUNHAM: Was that kind of--they stopped taking it seriously, if you will?

YAMAMOTO: We had a shelter. My brother had a--his car was right over it. We made a shelter just where--his car was parked over the--it took us--

DUNHAM: Oh, okay, parked the car over it.

TAKATI: The people was nice though. During the war everybody was nice.

YAMAMOTO: It took us how many weeks to make the shelter--

TAKATI: They never dragged out that--no, even us Japanese. But they never tried to attack us.

YAMAMOTO: We put the boards so that he can park his car right above the shelter. And we had canned goods, all kinds of canned goods, but we never got to use. A 00:47:00knife and a cutting board and water--gallons of water. Yeah.

DUNHAM: Well, Grace before talked about soon after Pearl Harbor, being called names, and did you--now, you just talk about how nice everyone was, but were you ever called derogatory, negative names?

FUKUMOTO: For being Japanese.

TAKATI: What?

FUKUMOTO: Made fun of. Did people say things to you because you were Japanese?

TAKATI: No, no. They were nice to us. They never called--

DUNHAM: Didn't encounter that.

FUKUMOTO: But you had some different experience.

YAMAMOTO: I yeah, I had yeah. I experienced--

TAKATI: We go to the Filipino camp and they never tried to attack me or anything.

DUNHAM: But Grace did, so maybe--

YAMAMOTO: When I'm going shopping, the truck loaded with the soldiers, and they see me walking, they call me, "Jap, Jap, Jap. Get off the road. Get off the road. Go home where you belong."

TAKATI: Ah! I never had.

YAMAMOTO: You know--oh, it was really hard. Yeah.

DUNHAM: Did that happen all through the war years?

YAMAMOTO: Yes, yes, yes, yes. But I don't know--

DUNHAM: Okay. How did you--did you guys follow the news of the war in the Pacific and/or in Europe?

YAMAMOTO: Yes.

DUNHAM: How did you follow it?

TAKATI: I don't remember, but only we were so scared.

YAMAMOTO: The radio. A small radio.

DUNHAM: Yeah, maybe one at a time. What were you saying, Grace? Sorry, and then we'll come back to you.

YAMAMOTO: We had a small radio and my brother would put the radio on at news time. The news time was, I think, five p.m. So he made sure that he see, in the house, he would control the radio so we can hear the news. So when the news was over he'd turn it off and he would go fishing. He made friends with the 00:49:00soldiers, and the soldiers would give him candy you know, from the--he would bring home some of the candies. So my sisters, my younger sister and brother, could look forward to the candy, because we couldn't buy any candy. There weren't too many candies that you can buy. So--

DUNHAM: Now, you both had family in Japan too, and your parents had both come from--were you in contact or concerned, your parents especially, about family there?

YAMAMOTO: Yes, yes.

DUNHAM: So how was that?

YAMAMOTO: I know my grandparents wrote, in Japanese, to my parents. My parents looked forward to the letter and they looked forward to my parents writing to them to see how we are getting along. Of course the plantation period wasn't 00:50:00that much.

DUNHAM: But during the war years were you still able to correspond with them?

YAMAMOTO: During the war years--

TAKATI: No, no.

YAMAMOTO: --no. It was really hard, because any letter that goes to the foreign country, I think the government took the letters to see what was written.

DUNHAM: Censored them.

FUKUMOTO: Censored, yeah.

DUNHAM: Did you get letters back where things were cut out?

YAMAMOTO: Yes, yes.

DUNHAM: You remember that.

TAKATI: I don't--I experienced that no.

YAMAMOTO: I know my parents--

TAKATI: Because we never used to write letters.

DUNHAM: Oh, okay. So did you have any contacts?

TAKATI: No, no.

DUNHAM: And your family was in Hiroshima.

FUKUMOTO: Was from Hiroshima.

TAKATI: Yeah, but no, we have no contact until after the war.

DUNHAM: And what about after the war? How did your family survive?

TAKATI: After the war we heard that Hiroshima was bombed, but we were following our country, so we never get--

DUNHAM: So they were okay. So your immediate family was okay.

TAKATI: Yeah, yeah, but--

DUNHAM: Yeah, but still, what was it like learning about Hiroshima?

TAKATI: When I went to see, it was all flat a town, the Hiroshima town--all flat. Nothing, no house, only one spot of the place still they have as a memory, but it was all flat. But well, I figure, oh, so I cannot help that. And their pain was long. I guess we figure that's all--I couldn't tell that to anybody, but we started the war--so you cannot help.

DUNHAM: And for you, Grace, what part of Japan was your family in?

YAMAMOTO: Yes, my parents wrote back and forth, and when my parents wrote they always said not to worry. Everything is fine--although everything was not fine--so that they wouldn't worry. But in Japan, I don't know, my grandparents 00:52:00wrote and said after the war it was like--it was meant to be like--what meant to be--everybody prospered. They prospered after the war. They had jobs. So they were earning money that--they never thought they would earn that much money. And so we were thinking maybe the war was a good thing, because when you hear them making, earning some money--before they never did. So it was good for them. And they had property, so that property turned into farming and they raised 00:53:00vegetables and sold it or shared.

FUKUMOTO: Did both of your families have gardens and raise animals?

TAKATI: Oh yes, we had a big property up in the mountains--but my father was supposed to be the head of the family. He was supposed to inherit that, but he gave it all to the brothers. See, he's not going back to Japan no more. So he came back and he died in Honolulu. And so the youngest brother had all the land and all the property.

DUNHAM: And during the war here, I know you had graduated high school that year, but did you work? Or what did you do during the war years?

YAMAMOTO: It was--the young boys were all inducted in the war. They had to go into the army, and so we had man shortage. So I worked in a laboratory in the Olokele Sugar Company, do samples. I knew a little bit about chemistry. I don't 00:54:00know how much I got paid--it was very low pay.

DUNHAM: It wasn't good. Sometimes those opportunities led to better pay, but you did not get good pay?TAKATI: It was a small pay.

FUKUMOTO: That's Kauai.

YAMAMOTO: No, the pay wasn't that great.

DUNHAM: And that was here on Kauai? That was in the laboratory. So what kind of chemistry work were you doing?

YAMAMOTO: Right. Lab, the sugar--because it's a sugar mill. They ground the sugar. {General?}--Gay & Robinson, okay? So Gay & Robinson and Kaumakani, Olokele, they merged. And so Olokele would grind {General's?} cane for them, and I don't know what they did--I don't know how the sugar was changed. I know my 00:55:00husband was a chemist and he would divide the sugar that came out, the brown sugar and the white sugar. I don't know. So much went to {General}, so much went to Olokele.

DUNHAM: So did you meet your husband at that job? Or when did you meet him?

YAMAMOTO: Yes, I met him at wartime. He is 4-F because he has bad lungs. He had collapsed lungs, so he was 4-F and the army would never pick him to be--but he wanted to be picked. You know, he wanted to go in the service, but--

DUNHAM: And he was Japanese American?

YAMAMOTO: Yes.

DUNHAM: Did you have siblings or other family members who did serve?

YAMAMOTO: Yes, he had how many--two brothers, two brothers I think--oh, or three 00:56:00brothers in the service. No, I take it back--four brothers in the service.

DUNHAM: Oh, okay.

YAMAMOTO: And they all came back alive, so they were really happy.

DUNHAM: Oh wow. Were they all in the 442nd or the 100th?

YAMAMOTO: Yeah, two of them were in the 442nd, in the regular army. The 442nd, Martin wanted to volunteer for the 442nd, but he was classified 4-F so he could never go into the service. He had bad lungs, collapsed lungs.

DUNHAM: Well, you might not have met if he had not--so that was fortunate.

YAMAMOTO: It worked out. In a way, he said, to his mother at that time that he was glad that he could stay back and do jobs that some people cannot do. But 00:57:00actually he was in poor health, his collapsed lungs, so his father used to come and chop wood for us and do a lot of the yard work for us, because he couldn't do it.

DUNHAM: Well, we're almost out of this tape. I just want to ask, is there anything we haven't asked you about that you'd like to share about your lives on Kauai and during the war years or anything else?

YAMAMOTO: No, I can--

TAKATI: It is the best place to live, Kauai.

DUNHAM: Yeah, well, we feel that way! Why do you most feel that way?

TAKATI: The climate is good and the people are all international people, but they are all nice--we get along well with people, yeah. And that's about all, I think.

DUNHAM: Okay, okay. And how about for you, Grace?

YAMAMOTO: I yeah--when the war was over we were all so happy. We couldn't believe that war was over. But when I was in Japan I went to this museum and they put all the names of the Japan soldiers who were killed in action. But they didn't put the American soldiers who were killed in action, only just Japan. But both sides lost, losing all those good men. That's what I say. Nobody won. But my mother-in-law said Japan won. She always said Japan won. She said--when I go 00:59:00to church, that's what they said at church--Japan won, Japan won the war. [Takaki laughs and says "Hmm."]

FUKUMOTO: Interesting.

YAMAMOTO: And my husband would get so irritated, hearing his own mother talking like that. He would just tell her, "Shut your mouth. Shut your mouth." [laughter]

FUKUMOTO: Wow, wow.

YAMAMOTO: And you know, she couldn't believe her son telling her to shut up!

FUKUMOTO: Yeah, because that was tough. It's hard, right? You're here, but--yeah.

DUNHAM: Well, the last thing would be, since you both have had such long, inspiring lives, what's your secret to long, healthy, mindful living?

TAKATI: But this is the best place to live.

DUNHAM: Kauai is your secret? Okay. [laughter]

FUKUMOTO: It's a secret.

TAKATI: Yeah, all international people.

YAMAMOTO: I think so, yes.

TAKATI: But we all get along well.

DUNHAM: How about for you, Grace? Any secret diet, exercise--not swimming.

YAMAMOTO: [laughter] Yeah, secret diet is a lot of vegetables!

DUNHAM: Yeah, yeah, and tropical--

YAMAMOTO: My husband would have a bowl this big with the lettuce and tomatoes and cucumbers, radishes, from his garden. And he was so happy to have all of it. And I would have a small bowl, like this, with salad, because I don't eat that much. But Martin ate, and if I gave him just a little bit he'd say, "Where are all the vegetables? I want more vegetables!" He just loved his vegetables.

DUNHAM: Well, thank you both. Is there anything else you wanted to ask?

FUKUMOTO: Yeah--no, that was--thank you.

DUNHAM: Thank you very much for sharing. We really appreciate your time.

TAKATI: Oh, it was great, yeah.

FUKUMOTO: It was a nice time.

DUNHAM: Yeah, thank you.

[End of Interview]