Letterina Iannacone | Interview 1 | November 14, 2016

DUNHAM: OK. Well, it's Monday, November 14, 2016. My name is David Dunham, with the Rosie the Riveter World War II Homefront Oral History Project, and I'm here in the lovely home of Letterina Iannacone [pronounced "Ai-anna-cone-ay"]. Am I saying that--

IANNACONE: "Ai-anna-cone."

DUNHAM: "Ai-anna-cone." Thank you. And we usually start at the beginning. And so could you tell me--well, first, I guess, say your full name, and when and where you were born.

IANNACONE: I was born December 20, 1922. And I come from a family of legal immigrants, from Italy. And we were about 300 miles above Rome, but we're more on the eastern coast, on the Adriatic side. And my father came here alone, because he couldn't afford my mother, too. So he waited a year and sent for her.

DUNHAM: And about when was that?

IANNACONE: That must have been about 1911 or thereabouts. So they came here, and my mother got very lonesome for her country. She came from a well-to-do family. My father was an average working person, and--but well respected. About a year he called for her, she got here from Italy. And he met her in, I guess, New York, where they would generally come in. And we got a wonderful, wonderful life. The two of them together were lovely parents, and I'm one of nine children.

DUNHAM: And where did you fall? Where did you fall, of the nine?

IANNACONE: The seventh child. There's only one living besides me. I'll be ninety-four in December; the other one's eighty-seven. She is still living, too.

DUNHAM: Is that the youngest?

IANNACONE: As we grew up, my parents were very attentive; made sure we were well behaved, but enjoyed ourselves, too. We loved baseball as we grew up. And my father's name was Pete, so all nine of us played on a baseball team; we were called "Pete's Kids."

DUNHAM: You played together on a team?

IANNACONE: We all played together, and everybody said, "We like them, but they always win all their games," so--[laughter] So my father was very proud of us. And of course, we were taught discipline, and rules, and whatnot. And my older brothers and sisters--

DUNHAM: What position did you play, or positions?

IANNACONE: In baseball, I played second base and shortstop.

DUNHAM: And you played hard pitch?

IANNACONE: Oh, yeah.

DUNHAM: And how many girls of the nine?

IANNACONE: Oh, god. There were quite a few. And I know we kept winning the games. The girls said, "We like you, Lee, but you throw the ball too hard. We're 00:03:00missing!" [laughter]

DUNHAM: So the teams you played against, were they boys and girls, or were they all boys?

IANNACONE: Oh, yes. They were mixed teams.

DUNHAM: So a lot of girls were playing baseball?

IANNACONE: And a lot of our neighborhood people were in it. And--

DUNHAM: Can I back up to back in Italy? How did your parents meet? You said they were of different classes.

IANNACONE: I'll tell you. Different classes. In fact, this is funny. My father had met a woman one time and said, "Are there any more at home like you?" We thought we started that! But she said, "Yes. By the way, I have a sister that isn't married." I think she was about twenty-eight then. My mother was five years older than my father, and they got along beautifully. And so they got married, had their children. And my mother had two sons first, was very pleased, and when she got the first girl, she was worried because she heard girls were so hard to raise. Of course, we were a very, very close family. I still keep up on 00:04:00all their children that live all over the country.

DUNHAM: So their first children were born in Italy?

IANNACONE: No, they were born here. After she got here. About within the year she had my first--in fact, I think right now, he would be about 102 years old. Because that's a lot of years ago. And--

DUNHAM: Did you know either of your grandparents?

IANNACONE: Oh, yes.

DUNHAM: Did they come--

IANNACONE: My mother died when I was thirteen. And of course, she had no children then. But we were a very, very close family. Like I said, a lot of discipline, but a lot of love, too. If--

DUNHAM: How did the discipline--how was that administered?

IANNACONE: If my father said--when we were older, to date, if he said to be home at ten o'clock, we made sure we were home by quarter of. We followed the orders, because he meant business. And of course, we appreciated that, because it was good teaching. If you have rules, you go by the rules, you know? And my mother spoke beautiful Italian. She spoke a lot of Latin, too. In fact, every Sunday, 00:05:00we all went to Mass. The neighbors used to call us the "seven stars": "Here they are again, all dressed, going to Mass." And we lived about three or four miles from this church at the one time, so we all walked.

DUNHAM: Where did you grow up?

IANNACONE: In Bridgeport, Pennsylvania. It's right near Valley Forge. And it was all very, very nice. And--

DUNHAM: What was the makeup of that community at the time?

IANNACONE: Oh, it was Italian, Polish, Irish--all different languages. They all seemed to gather together there. A lot of Italians, but a lot of Polish, and some Ukraine. And it's nice, because we learned an awful lot about different countries, their systems and whatnot. And so it was all very, very nice. And my older brother and sisters, they had to quit school early to help participate--to keep up the family. But--

DUNHAM: Did they have to work, or what did they do?

IANNACONE: About four or five of us. I graduated. Academic, I did very well. I did very well in music. I played piano and guitar at the time. But as time went on, when I was fourteen, I got a scholarship to Julliard conservatory [The Julliard School].

DUNHAM: Oh, wow.

IANNACONE: Really terrific. And I participated in all the shows in school: the musicals; the drama; the whatnot. And for a while, before I graduated from high school, I guess for about ten, twelve years, I sang with a twelve-piece dance band. I used to make $15 a night, which was fantastic, because most people were making $15 a week.

DUNHAM: So this is in the thirties, or--? When is this? The early forties?

IANNACONE: Yes. Let's see. I started school in '32. Yes. Even before the forties. Well, I knew all the big bands, and it was all terrific. But--

DUNHAM: So what would you sing? What kinds of things did you sing?

IANNACONE: I sang--oh, god--anything that was real popular. And the band leader 00:07:00was terrific, and the musicians. In fact, I've got to tell you this: I was dancing about thirty, or thirty-five, forty years later, and a man I was dancing with stared at me. He said, "Is your name Lee?" I said, "Yes, why?" He said, "I used to play trumpet in the band you sang with." Now, that had to be thirty years or so. He said, "I'd know you anywhere." So it was really very, very nice.

DUNHAM: Do you remember the name of that band?

IANNACONE: Yes: the Penn Norris Band. They were located in Norristown, Pennsylvania. And I also sang with a park band before that called the--I'll have to think of it now. This father had a music store. Well, anyhow, it was a band that had four or five pieces; I sang. But when I sang with a full-time band, I liked that, because it was good music, and it wasn't junk, you know, like you [laughter] hear now.

DUNHAM: Was your mother and/or father musical? Or where did you learn--

IANNACONE: They loved opera. I knew opera from the time I was about five years old. And that's what made me go--you know, to learn opera. In fact, every Sunday night after dinner was opera night. He'd have the records on. And I knew all the operas. Rigoletto was one of the first ones I learned; I was about five years old. And I've sun in Rigoletto, which, one part as a quartet. I think just a tenor, and mostly men, but I sang in that. I've sung in--oh, I can't think of the name right now. I used to sing--I can't think of the name of the opera. I loved the opera. Anyhow--

DUNHAM: Did you take lessons or have a coach?

IANNACONE: No, no. But I have--

DUNHAM: Never?

IANNACONE: --won different contests, you know. Of course, the WPA was the Workman's Progress Association [Works Progress Administration]. I won to take 00:09:00lessons with them, and had two or three singing lessons. And it was all very, very interesting. And everything looked like that had a future to it. You know?

DUNHAM: So through the WPA, you were able to take--

IANNACONE: Yeah, with the--

DUNHAM: --voice lessons? And in your town, or--?

IANNACONE: In town. In Norristown. And I got nice compliments. And some of the men that were working in the--wherever we had--the building, they were building up on it, and they'd stop working, and look and listen. [laughter] But it was complimentary, and it was very nice. And I was fortunate enough to attend the Academy of Music a lot, because my father's friend played the English horn in the Philadelphia Orchestra. So I got free passes, which was very nice. Very nice. Because you know, with a lot of children, you couldn't afford--

DUNHAM: Was that right in your town, too, or--?

IANNACONE: That was right in our town. Well, this--

DUNHAM: Remind me of the town again?

IANNACONE: --was when I lived in--right near Valley Forge. And it would be nothing to take a bus to go to the Academy of Music, in Philadelphia.

DUNHAM: And so did your whole family move there at that time, or--?

IANNACONE: Oh, yes. We all moved together. In fact, my mother died when I was thirteen, so there were seven girls. My brothers were married, but the seven girls and my father, we all lived together. And with the discipline and the love and everything, and it was all very, very nice.

DUNHAM: Oh! This is rustling a little. Is it the papers, or--? Maybe we'll just sit those aside. Sorry. Or just for now, just--

IANNACONE: These I have to mail.

DUNHAM: Oh, OK! Well, I won't forget. Can I just put them over here?

IANNACONE: OK. That'll be fine.

DUNHAM: Just for the audio. Sorry about that. So I have a lot of questions about your growing up. I am just curious--

IANNACONE: We were such a family that we had--on Saturday nights, we had talent night. And we'd clap for one another. And if we were good, [laughter] you know, we'd clap a lot. If they weren't so good, we'd kind of frown. But it was all a 00:11:00big family affair.

DUNHAM: Were there other of your siblings who had anywhere near the musical gifts you had, or--?

IANNACONE: No. Well, I had a sister that played the Hawaiian guitar. But I measure music. I just loved music, and everything about it.

DUNHAM: Like slack-key guitar, or--? How did she learn Hawaiian guitar?

IANNACONE: I think she took lessons. Yeah. They're almost all gone now, you know? My sister Cindy, my older sister, who took over after my mother died, was nineteen. Can you imagine? And she was absolutely excellent. She was a tailor. She and her husband had a tailor shop in Baltimore. She excelled in sewing. I still have my younger sister. She excels in sewing, too. She makes brides' gowns, and bridesmaids' gowns, and whatnot. And I think two or three of them were very good at sewing. But I liked the music.

DUNHAM: How did your mother pass?

IANNACONE: My mother had cirrhosis of the liver. Now, they say that comes from drinking. My mother never even had a glass of wine at Christmas dinner. She just didn't agree with it. But it was pathetic, because there were nine of us left. The oldest one was nineteen, and the youngest one was nine. But we were taught to get together on everything. We always did. We questioned the other ones and--for help, or if there was something real good, they told it was real good. It was a very nice family affair.

DUNHAM: Was your mom sick for long?

IANNACONE: I'd say at least a couple of months, and we knew. And then she died on Palm Sunday. Which made it extra sad. But we had such a closeness. In fact, I felt so bad about it, I couldn't talk about that for about twenty years, at least--

DUNHAM: Do you mind my asking about it now? Is it OK?

IANNACONE: Yeah. Now is different. In fact, we used to have viewings in homes at 00:13:00that time--your own private homes. And I remember, she was laid out on the corner in the living room. I wouldn't pass that corner. It just would annoy me.

DUNHAM: After? Yeah.

IANNACONE: But eventually, you knew you had to, you know? And we were all very respectful to her, and always had Masses said for her, you know? Which was nice.

DUNHAM: Before she got sick, you mentioned your father was maybe the--more the disciplinarian. What was your mom like when you were growing up?

IANNACONE: Same thing. Very loving, but very di--if we did anything good, she'd hug us and tell her how good it was. If we did something that she didn't like, she'd say, "You know that's improper." And we watched our language and everything. And everything was disciplinary. Even if my father worked overtime a little bit, we would wait until he got home from work, and then we all ate together.

DUNHAM: And you grew up speaking Italian in the home?

IANNACONE: Oh, yeah. I can read it and write Italian.

DUNHAM: Did your mother and father learn English, to some extent?

IANNACONE: They did. Yes. They had a little difficulty like all immigrants do. But my father, every once in a while, would come across a real cute saying. Like one night he said he was going to go to bed, and he was going to say, "Good night." He said, "I think I'm going to hit the hay." Well, see, he learned that from friends and whatnot. But our customs were very Italian: food--

DUNHAM: Can you describe some of those? What you ate--

IANNACONE: Well--

DUNHAM: --and what your customs were?

IANNACONE: --lasagna is one, number one. And this was all homemade stuff. Like ravioli, you would make it. You didn't buy it like you do now. Pasta fagioli. And everything that was Italian. And in fact, that area where they came from was known as the Abrusi [Abruzzo] section. And they are known as excellent cooks. 00:15:00And it was very, very nice. And it's always a proud feeling to tell you they like your food. You know?

DUNHAM: Did you learn to cook from your mom or your siblings?

IANNACONE: Yes. She didn't tell us how to cook, but we watched her. And she never said you put so much of this, or that, or the other, but we watched her. And of course, we all cook like her. In fact, I cook a lot for my friends that take me here and there since I don't drive now. It's about two years I gave up driving, because I passed out while I was driving one day, and I didn't want that to happen again. So I gave it up. So a lot of people are very good to me: people that take me bowling; take me dancing. They take me here and there; I always make food for them. And they like it.

DUNHAM: What things do you like to make?

IANNACONE: I like to make ravioli. I like to make stuffed peppers. I like to make ordinary spaghetti. I like roast chicken like my mother used to make. She 00:16:00used to insert a little stab in the chicken and put some--a little bit of lard in there, and garlic. Now, I never cook chicken without garlic or--oh, what's that other good-smelling stuff? But anyhow, they said, "Where did you learn how to cook?" I said, "From watching." Really. We never got lessons or anything.

DUNHAM: But with nine children, then--again, when you were young, before she got sick--what was a typical day like for your mom?

IANNACONE: Oh, up real early, of course, to make sure we were ready for school, to make sure we had no excuses--you got to school. We used to take a school bus at the time. And it was all discipline. You come home, and we had certain things we had to do. Took care of our own responsibilities at home.

DUNHAM: What was your home like?

IANNACONE: Oh, my father had built a home that had three bedrooms, a lovely 00:17:00living room, and dining room and kitchen, and my mother had a laundry room he had built for her. And we also had a canning room. We would make about 500 jars of tomato. And of course, we'd have it all for the winter.

Then another thing my father did, which I thought was fabulous: we would have the dark green cabbage. We had our own little garden. And I saw him before winter came in, he'd dig a great big hole--I'd say eight or ten feet big. And when the cabbage or whatever was seasoned, he'd have it cut off, and he'd put a tarpaulin inside that big hole, and fill it up with all the stuff that he wanted for the wintertime. Like the cabbage, you know? Cover it with a tarpaulin. And in the winter, it would all be covered with snow. And when we had fresh cabbage, it would be from there. He'd take it out of there; that would be our fresh 00:18:00cabbage or whatever. We had our own corn, our own eggplants. So he froze a lot of that stuff. I thought it was artistic.

DUNHAM: So a "tarpaulin," is that like a tarp? But it's--

IANNACONE: Yeah.

DUNHAM: OK. Is it a special kind of--?

IANNACONE: Well, anything that was heavy and would take the snow out--keep the snow out. And my father would make wine once in a while. My mother would make root beer once in a while.

DUNHAM: Did you grow grapes, too, then, or--for the wine? Or how did he do that?

IANNACONE: No, he would buy the grapes, I guess. We didn't have grapes.

DUNHAM: Because you grew tomato, cabbage, corn, eggplants, you said? Anything else that you grew?

IANNACONE: Oh, I'm trying to think. Whatever--

DUNHAM: Did you have to help with the garden?

IANNACONE: Tomatoes! I was shocked how tomatoes grew underground. That really shocked me. So they were taken out. Everything was frozen.

DUNHAM: Oh, OK--just frozen with the tarp over it? Yeah. Did you help with the gardening, or--?

IANNACONE: Oh, yeah--we had to.

DUNHAM: So what did you--

IANNACONE: We had cert--

DUNHAM: --learn to do?

IANNACONE: You had to pull the grass. My father did most of the planting, but we watched him. So of course, we knew how. But we had to keep the grass out of those plants and everything. One day, he came home from work and he said, "It looks like the yard needs cleaning." He said, "I like it done when I get home from work." Before four o'clock, we had it all done. All the grass was removed. And we had peppers, too. Peppers, tomatoes, and all that stuff.

DUNHAM: What kind of peppers? What kind of peppers?

IANNACONE: The bell pepper. The big peppers. So my mother would stuff them a lot, with different things. It was very sensible for a large family. You had everything you needed there. And of course, they were raised naturally, you know?

DUNHAM: What kind of work was your father doing?

IANNACONE: My father worked for Bethlehem Steel. I don't know exactly what he did, but one time, my mother's lunch for him was late. You had to go down about 00:20:00twenty steps and deliver it, and we came right out. But--

DUNHAM: At his workplace? It was underground?

IANNACONE: No. It was a deep thing dug--no, it wasn't underground. But it was deep. And that was in King of Prussia, around there--Valley Forge. Around there. And--

DUNHAM: How did he get to work?

IANNACONE: Well, he drove.

DUNHAM: He had a car? OK.

IANNACONE: You wonder how he got a license. He must have gotten it legally, because he drove. He drove us all over when we needed to be driven.

DUNHAM: And during the Depression, how was your family impacted? Or your community?

IANNACONE: Well, it was pretty rough. Guess what my father was making when there was a severe cut at work? He was making thirty-five cents an hour. Would you believe it? For a family of nine? And my two brothers were grown by then, and they were--what do you call them that take care of the golf course?

DUNHAM: I don't know. A landscaper?

IANNACONE: No.

DUNHAM: No, not that.

IANNACONE: No, it was a regular. Like they would follow a good golfer.

DUNHAM: Oh, OK. Oh! Like a caddy?

IANNACONE: Caddy. They both had caddies, and that's how they earned their money. And of course, as they got older, they got fuller jobs. I don't remember exactly what they did. But they kept busy all the time.

DUNHAM: So what was school like for you growing up?

IANNACONE: Well, school I loved. I went to first grade, came to go to second grade. I got called in the office: "You don't go to second. You go right to third. That your marks are adequate, you're doing fine." And I've done very well in school. So I took all the academic subjects. I had four years of Latin that I loved. And then, of course, I recognize Latin now. Even in Mass, you know, you 00:22:00would see it all the time. And I had two years of solid geometry--I mean, one year of plane geometry, one year of solid geometry. And one year of algebra I, and then another year, algebra II. Four years of English.

DUNHAM: Was there any one teacher that was particularly--

IANNACONE: Oh, yes.

DUNHAM: --inspirational to you?

IANNACONE: The Latin teacher, whose name I can't remember now. But she was absolutely terrific.

DUNHAM: Did you have an idea when you were a young girl of what you wanted to sort of do with your life--

IANNACONE: Not really.

DUNHAM: --if you will?

IANNACONE: Not really, because you didn't have money, number one, to worry about. But I knew I had to do something. So I stuck to music, and I liked that a lot. And of course, I went to work at the Navy yard [Philadelphia Naval Shipyard]. I graduated June 6--

DUNHAM: I want to talk about that in detail, but I want to ask you a couple more questions about your childhood, and then we are almost there.

IANNACONE: So--

DUNHAM: No. You said you knew some of your grandparents. Did they move here?

IANNACONE: No, I didn't know any of the grandparents. Just my parents.

DUNHAM: So you never met your grandparents?

IANNACONE: No. Never. My father said that my mother's father was a dignitary--I 00:23:00don't know--or something political. It was a very good for him, but I don't know exactly what it was.

DUNHAM: And you said you had an opportunity to go to Julliard con--

IANNACONE: To Julliard. But guess why I didn't go? It was only for me, not my family. And I didn't want to live--I was fourteen years old. I was no person to go to New York by myself. But I was highly respected by them. I didn't take--but I did a lot of singing, opera singing, all along, which was--it kept me busy.

DUNHAM: Did you have dreams of being a professional singer at that time?

IANNACONE: I did for a while, but then, it takes so much, because you have to be here and there, and you have to dress just right. And competition's great. But as far as voice, I had no trouble with competition, so--But it was very, very 00:24:00nice. And I was very pleased. Oh! Another thing. When I was thirteen, I was the runner-up in the spelling bee in Philadelphia. So that made me proud, too. I thought, well, I could do more than one thing.

DUNHAM: Did you travel to competitions for the singing?

IANNACONE: Yeah, but mostly around our area, where my father could drive us around. Because if you don't have the money, you can't travel.

DUNHAM: And now, did you say, did your mother or father sing or play an instrument?

IANNACONE: No, but they knew opera. My father would be busy around the house, doing different things, and you would hear him hum different tunes from different operas. Yeah. Oh, I remember now the opera that I loved. I sang Violetta, La traviata. So I liked that. Any music that's good. You know, that's nice to hear.

DUNHAM: Aside from your getting voice lessons through the WPA, did you--were there other things you knew about happening during the Depression with the New 00:25:00Deal and the WPA?

IANNACONE: Well, I always won the dance contests they had around. It maybe only gave you $2 or $3, but it was a big deal. Because competition is great.

DUNHAM: Did you play other sports besides baseball or--in school?

IANNACONE: Well, not really.

DUNHAM: Because you were in the arts--

IANNACONE: Hockey. Field hockey. I played center forward in field hockey.

DUNHAM: Just thought of it since you mentioned liking the competition.

IANNACONE: Yeah. [laughter] It was fun. And of course, spelling bees. I was always in spelling bees. Because it made me feel comfortable.

DUNHAM: The Latin helps with that. Probably helped with that, yeah? The Latin? It probably helped with that? Studying Latin?

IANNACONE: Oh, yeah. Very much. Right.

DUNHAM: What was health--

IANNACONE: But I won't forget the word "embarrassment." I forgot the one "R." That's why I was runner-up, and--[laughter] I won't forget that word as long as I live.

DUNHAM: You were forever embarrassed by that.

IANNACONE: But it was nice.

DUNHAM: But that's still great, second. I was going to ask: what was healthcare 00:26:00like when you were growing up?

IANNACONE: Oh--

DUNHAM: Did you go to a doctor?

IANNACONE: No. Never went to a doctor or dentist. And you didn't hear of it. When you didn't have the money, you just didn't go.

DUNHAM: Did your family have home remedies for--

IANNACONE: Oh, yeah. Like most parents, you know. Take care of this or that and the other, and watch the germs and whatnot, and--And our house that my father built was really beautiful. Three bedrooms, and my brothers, he added an attic to it. He made a dormitory for them up there. The two boys. It was very nice. Two big beds, and had it all decorated nicely. Now, the other three bedrooms, there were seven of us, so you know we were mixing up--that we were sleeping more than two in a bed, right?

DUNHAM: So--

IANNACONE: But that was the thing at the time, right?

DUNHAM: You got along with your sisters--

IANNACONE: Oh, yeah.

DUNHAM: --well enough?

IANNACONE: Yeah. Very good.

DUNHAM: Well, what was high school like? What was dating like at that time?

IANNACONE: Well, I didn't date not too much at all. Because that wasn't the thing. We did everything in groups. You know?

DUNHAM: I've heard that.

IANNACONE: And I was thrilled one year when we had a high school principal who was a terrific dancer, and he asked me to dance at one of the proms. And I thought, oh, this is living. It was very nice. And you don't do that now too much, you know? Or you shouldn't. But anyhow, everything, I'd say, was pretty nice. I was in charge of assembly a lot at high school. And once in a while, I would have the band I would sing with as a guest, which they liked very much. And--

DUNHAM: What other types of things would be presented at a high school assembly at that time?

IANNACONE: Well, if we had a drama on, maybe they would show part of the drama. 00:28:00Or have somebody recite something. And even when it came to politics, they made me head of the Democratic Club of the high school. You know, it was funny: Upper Merion was a Republican town. But the Democrats always won. You know why? We voted in high school. And most of the Italians and Ukraines and what--had a lot of kids. Well, they'd all vote Democratic. So that's what would win. But I had a lot of respect.

The only thing that bothered me for a while when I was quite young: we would be called "dagos" or "wops." Or "giddies." And I didn't know until much later that "wops" meant "without papers." I didn't know that. But anyhow, it got to the point everybody had a lot of respect for each other. That was when I was in a lower grade.

DUNHAM: When you were being called that as a young kid, was it by any particular 00:29:00other group, or--?

IANNACONE: No. Just--

DUNHAM: All together?

IANNACONE: --somebody that probably--

DUNHAM: Because you--

IANNACONE: --had a lot of money, and we didn't. You know?

DUNHAM: So your town had some mixed economics? Or would that have been a neighboring town?

IANNACONE: That's right. Right.

DUNHAM: Because you said you had a mix of Irish, Russian--

IANNACONE: I don't know, but we had Russian, Polish, Ukraine. And I learned a lot of words from them, and I taught them a lot of words. Some of them aren't the best words, but you learned them all. [laughter]

DUNHAM: The words you didn't say around your parents?

IANNACONE: Right, right.

DUNHAM: And did they have their own churches?

IANNACONE: Most of them were Catholic. We were. So the Polish were, the Ukraines were, the Italians were Catholic. Most of them. And of course, those that weren't, we--

DUNHAM: So did you go to the same church?

IANNACONE: Oh, yeah. But we were taught respect for the other religions, too. Which was proper.

DUNHAM: And the Masses were in English?

IANNACONE: Oh, yeah. Well, no. A lot of them were in Latin. Which I understood. 00:30:00Or, I guess, part Italian. But it's amazing how we all blended in together.

DUNHAM: Do you remember any times there were fights, or difficulties, or crimes, or--

IANNACONE: No, I--

DUNHAM: --that kind of thing going on?

IANNACONE: There may have been, but I'm not familiar. Of course, life was more you went by the rules when I was a kid, you know? If you would disagree with somebody, you disagreed, but there were no fights. I'm sure there were, but I don't know of any. Right.

DUNHAM: So anything else about your high school years or growing up you wanted to share with me--

IANNACONE: Oh, yes.

DUNHAM: --that we didn't cover?

IANNACONE: I got a lot of the parts of the dramatic shows and the musicals, and--

DUNHAM: What were some of the plays and musicals you were in?

IANNACONE: Oh, god. One was a "Mrs. Wood" or something. I played the old lady. And we had some other thing, because I belonged to the dramatic club.

DUNHAM: Within the high school, or--?

IANNACONE: In high school. And then also, I belonged to a thing called the 00:31:00Southeastern District Chorus that I sang with. That was Pennsylvania, New Jersey, and Delaware. And it was nice. We participated in a lot of the things, you know.

DUNHAM: So for that, you must have traveled some.

IANNACONE: Yeah. Well, that was mostly a school bus would take you. So that was all right. That--

DUNHAM: And where would you perform?

IANNACONE: In their schools. In their auditoriums or whatever. And it turned out nicely.

DUNHAM: So was it during high school that you were singing with the big band?

IANNACONE: Yes, before high school. I must have been about maybe fifteen.

DUNHAM: Oh, but you had skipped a grade, right? So weren't you--

IANNACONE: Yeah.

DUNHAM: --in high school by that time?

IANNACONE: Yeah.

DUNHAM: So did you--

IANNACONE: Yeah. And it was nice. And then the orchestra leaders were all very, very dignified, and--

DUNHAM: Would you sing just, like, a song or two? Or would you sing--

IANNACONE: Oh, I would sing a song. If they liked it, I'd sing two or three. 00:32:00[laughter] Yes. It was very nice. Very nice.

DUNHAM: Well, that must have been quite a thrill to be--

IANNACONE: And I used to--

DUNHAM: --able to do that.

IANNACONE: --go to a lot of local dances in Norristown, too. A lot of the Italian clubs would have dances. And you know, you'd go there by yourself, or with a sister. You didn't have to go with a date. You could dance, and when it's time to go home, you'd look your sister up and you'd go home.

DUNHAM: And what kind of dancing were you doing?

IANNACONE: That was regular dancing. But then later on, when I got to be about nineteen or twenty, I got to like ballroom, which is terrific dancing.

DUNHAM: So what year did you graduate high school?

IANNACONE: Nineteen forty-one.

DUNHAM: In June?

IANNACONE: June 6.

DUNHAM: June of '41? OK.

IANNACONE: In fact, the fellow I was dancing with before I graduated said to me, "You went to high school, didn't you?" I said, "Of course. I have had some college, too." I went to Ursinus [College]. And he said, "Well, they're taking tests now at town hall and city hall for--to go to the Navy yard to be a 00:33:00riveter." I said, "Oh!" So I went. I took the bus and went. I think I got a ninety-eight or ninety-six--something like that.

DUNHAM: Was this in '41, before the attack on Pearl Harbor, or after? Or shortly after Pearl Harbor?

IANNACONE: It had to be slightly before, I guess. Somewhere around there. Because then I--

DUNHAM: So what was the test like? Do you remember? Do you remember the test?

IANNACONE: Oh, it took in everything. And I was pleased that I--

DUNHAM: It was all written?

IANNACONE: --thought I did well.

DUNHAM: A written--

IANNACONE: Written out. All you had to do was answer. You may--

DUNHAM: But did you go by yourself?

IANNACONE: Yeah. I went by myself. I took the bus. When I got done, I took it home. And then when they got the results, they got in touch with me. And that's when they got in the touch with the Navy yard, and I went down there. And that was terrific. You walked in, you held up your pocketbook. Everything was tested, you know? You had to open your pocketbook in case you had something that wasn't right.

DUNHAM: Oh, they had a security inspection?

IANNACONE: We were guarded by the guards. Yeah.

DUNHAM: What were they worried about you bringing in?

IANNACONE: Anything, I guess, that was improper. And leaving. If you were taking anything out. Because a girl didn't have time to put the rivet back, the rivet head. She opened her purse, and there it was. Well, they took her in right away.

DUNHAM: Wait, it was in her purse?

IANNACONE: Yeah. She said, "Well, I'll put it back tomorrow." She put it in her purse. They found a rivet head, so she was taken in. And of course--

DUNHAM: What do you mean "taken in?"

IANNACONE: Taken in the office. And she was questioned and whatnot. And she said, "I didn't have time to put it away before the bus was ready to leave. So I threw it in there." So--

DUNHAM: Do you remember when you started working there? What month?

IANNACONE: I think it was still warm. And see, I graduated in June. I know by Christmas, I was definitely working full-time there.

DUNHAM: So do you remember where you were when you heard about the attack on Pearl Harbor?

IANNACONE: Oh, gosh. I'm trying to think. I don't know.

DUNHAM: But you were already working, you think?

IANNACONE: Oh, yes. I was working, I think. Yeah. Because that was--what--December 7 or something?

DUNHAM: Yeah, December 7 of '41. Yeah. It's just--

IANNACONE: And the--

DUNHAM: --I know women's work already starting then. But--

IANNACONE: And there weren't--

DUNHAM: --a lot of it came after.

IANNACONE: --too many female workers. By the time we got done at shop eleven at the Navy yard, there were 600 women in that building. And I loved it. And we got one or two planes from Italy that our soldiers had captured. And then their planes were black. Of course, their dashboards were all written in Italian and whatnot, but we didn't get any other country's planes. And once in while--

DUNHAM: Wait. I'm sorry. You said planes from Italy? Or you mean that went--

IANNACONE: Were put in the shop, and you could look it over. I guess so they--Yes, I was working in the summer, because once in a while, I'd go home 00:36:00sunburned if--we started out with observation scout planes. OS2 [Vought OS2u Kingfisher] was a two-seater, and then I guess--and not too long a time--we went to patrol bombers. And a lot of times, they were in your building, or sometimes they were outside. And you riveted, you riveted in the sun. What do you care? You had to do it, right? And we enjoyed it all. So it was quite interesting.

DUNHAM: Well, take me back. So you took the test. Do you remember how long it took until you heard back about the test, if you--?

IANNACONE: It had to be a couple of hours, I think.

DUNHAM: And did your parents know you had applied for the job?

IANNACONE: Well, my mother wasn't living--

DUNHAM: I'm sorry. I'm sorry.

IANNACONE: That's all right.

DUNHAM: Your father--

IANNACONE: Oh, my father--

DUNHAM: --and your siblings.

IANNACONE: --thought it was the greatest thing. They were the most patriotic people I know. They came to this country, and father kept saying, "You don't know how lucky you are that you are in this country." So we were brought up that way.

DUNHAM: Since you lived in a predominantly Italian community, after the attack on Pearl Harbor, did you know of any Italian-Americans who weren't citizens who were questioned or had any belongings taken?

IANNACONE: No.

DUNHAM: Or--

IANNACONE: Not that I know. Everybody seemed to be on their toes, you know--

DUNHAM: Just read about that there was some--

IANNACONE: That's right. There was some. Right.

DUNHAM: --you know, a very few who were incarcerated like the Japanese on the West Coast. But more who were subject to search or questioning, especially the most recent immigrants. And that there was, you know, understandably with recent immigrants, some mixed feelings in some communities.

IANNACONE: In fact, we were about two streets from Broad Street, when I would walk to the bus to go to the Navy yard. And my husband used to hang around at a store there. So he said to my younger sister, "Who is that one that wears"--we had to wear a one-piece coverall with our name on it. And he said, "Who is that?" She said, "That's my sister." He said, "Well, I'd like to meet her." And 00:38:00when I met her, I said--it's funny--my sister said, "Somebody would like to meet you. I met him, of course. In about three, four months, we were going steady. He wanted to get married right away. I said, "Let's wait until you get out of service."

DUNHAM: So he was already--

IANNACONE: Well, he worked for the railroads, so he was deferred about four times, because they delivered all this equipment to the state--what do you call them? And so it was very nice. So he was in the--oh! He was asked if he wanted to join the Marines. He said, "No, I think I'll join the Army." So he did. But he was in the infantry. That's as rough as you're going to get, so--But he enjoyed it. But he wasn't in that long, because he was deferred four times because of working for the railroad.

DUNHAM: So he had enlisted, but he was--did he do--what happened? He did basic training, but then--

IANNACONE: He made--

DUNHAM: --was deferred after that?

IANNACONE: --the training. That was after. And then my youngest brother-in-law 00:39:00was about twelve or thirteen. He couldn't understand how he couldn't go with my husband when he was in service in Florida. Because they had a step-mother by that time, and she was nasty. So he kept writing to my husband, saying this and that has happened. In fact, he would send him a dollar in every--that was a big deal, a dollar. And his step-mother wouldn't give the son the dollar, but she didn't know. No, she couldn't read the letter that I sent a dollar. So that had my husband upset. He lost about thirty pounds worrying about how she treated his younger brother. So eventually--

DUNHAM: Had he lost his mom, too, young?

IANNACONE: Oh, yeah. His mother died when he was thirteen also.

DUNHAM: Do you know--

IANNACONE: I didn't know them then.

DUNHAM: --how she died?

IANNACONE: She had breast cancer. Yeah. So she died when he was thirteen also. So--

DUNHAM: So the brother, although he was only twelve or thirteen, I mean, just fantasized, really that he could join up?

IANNACONE: And he was so upset about the way she treated him. So that made my husband--he lost about thirty, thirty-five pounds. So eventually, he was released. On honor, but--you know, he never did anything wrong. But I guess his weight was just too much--he kept losing weight.

DUNHAM: Oh, so the health--

IANNACONE: He lost about thirty-five pounds in no time.

DUNHAM: And it was really just because he was concerned about his brother?

IANNACONE: Yeah. So then, when he come out of there, he got a job with the Pennsylvania Railroad, and worked with them twenty-five years. Had a very good job with them. In fact, two weeks before he died, they were told he was going to be head of all the yards in Philadelphia. For $300,00 a year. That's nice money. But of course, he never--

DUNHAM: Three hundred thousand a year in what year?

IANNACONE: Nineteen forty-one, I guess. Yeah. Because Philadelphia had a lot of yards.

DUNHAM: Well, he had been there, you said, twenty-five years. He started in the early forties. So in the sixties sometime?

IANNACONE: Yeah.

DUNHAM: But that would be an incredible amount of money at that time.

IANNACONE: Yeah. Because had he been living, he would have been with the railroad right now about seventy-three years.

DUNHAM: Well, let's go back to your work. So what training did you get? After you passed the test, you got the job, did you know what you were going to be paid?

IANNACONE: Well, they told us about rivets. And we had what they called a "heat treat." You kept the rivets in there. When you needed them, you would get them in a box. And you had to account for everything, so--And there were different-sized rivets, too. When you got the rivet, it was kind of stiff as a board. By the time you shot it in, it was kind of wobbly. When you shot it in, as soon as it was shot in, that was like iron. It was really solid. And it was such a nice place to work, and everybody was willing to help with the war 00:42:00effort. You know?

DUNHAM: Were you working on ships?

IANNACONE: Oh, yeah. Patrol bombers. Planes, yeah. Patrol bombers and observation scout planes.

DUNHAM: Planes? Planes, or--

IANNACONE: Planes. Planes.

DUNHAM: Not ships?

IANNACONE: No. Planes.

DUNHAM: There were ships being built there, too, but you were working on the planes?

IANNACONE: I was in the aircraft district.

DUNHAM: Can you take me through a shift? How it would start, and what exactly you would do on a given day?

IANNACONE: All right. Of course, we got the pocketbooks looked at, inside and all. You would go in. You would sign in. And we would start to work right away. We knew what we had to do, because after a while, there was a shift after you, and so forth. But anyhow--

DUNHAM: When you first stated, you were day shift, and it was just the one shift?

IANNACONE: Yes, right. Day shift for a while.

DUNHAM: So then it was work was left where you left off?

IANNACONE: Right.

DUNHAM: But later, there were--

IANNACONE: That's right.

DUNHAM: --multiple shifts?

IANNACONE: But as I said, after a while, then most of the girls were bigger than 00:43:00I was. I was put in the gas tank. I couldn't do it now, I'll tell you. I'm claustrophobic. But I'd get in there, and we'd have a system. The girl would shoot the rivet in, and I went back over it with a solid piece of iron, or--

DUNHAM: So a riveter and a bucker?

IANNACONE: Yeah. And I would buck the rivet, and when I was done, I would [knocks] knock twice. We had a system. And our work was inspected all the time, and our bosses would write down the amount of time we spent there, the day, the date. And everybody was proud of what they were doing.

DUNHAM: Was your partner a woman? The--

IANNACONE: Yes. Yeah.

DUNHAM: And do you remember her name?

IANNACONE: Yes: Connie. She died about five, ten years ago. Connie.

DUNHAM: Where was she from? Do you recall?

IANNACONE: Yes. She was from North Philly [Philadelphia]. In fact, I saw her and I kind of liked her, so we got chummy. She was one of my bridesmaids when I got 00:44:00married. But it was all very, very nice. And we used to have these officers; we used to call them "ninety-day wanderers." Would walk around to watch us work and whatnot. And--

DUNHAM: Why did you call them that?

IANNACONE: I don't know. Somebody started that.

DUNHAM: I mean, was it a critical remark?

IANNACONE: Yeah.

DUNHAM: It sounds like you didn't think they were doing that much.

IANNACONE: They were all courteous. They would say hello. We got introduced to them, and they would ask us questions: what we were doing; how we were doing it. And--

DUNHAM: I was going to say: since you were one of the very first women working there, I have heard sometimes that the men were kind of hard on the women, especially at first.

IANNACONE: Well, no. I didn't find that.

DUNHAM: No?

IANNACONE: No. And--

DUNHAM: You weren't teased--

IANNACONE: No.

DUNHAM: --at all, or any--

IANNACONE: Yeah. Right.

DUNHAM: No?

IANNACONE: Because we figured we are dressed properly--oh! Another thing: we had to wear our heads covered, because one girl sometime got the drill caught in her 00:45:00hair. Well, you know what happened. So we had to wear--

DUNHAM: What did happen, exactly, when that happened?

IANNACONE: She got near bald. You figure if she--

DUNHAM: Just ripped her hair out?

IANNACONE: --didn't know enough--you know?

DUNHAM: But it didn't break the skin, or--

IANNACONE: Oh, no. No.

DUNHAM: --go into her head? No? OK. Well--

IANNACONE: Broke--

DUNHAM: --that was fortunate.

IANNACONE: --the hair. But it's very, very nice. At least--

DUNHAM: What other safety precautions were there? You mentioned you wore overalls. What was your total uniform?

IANNACONE: Complete overalls, zipped up to the top. Long legged, you know, long arms. And I'm trying to think--

DUNHAM: What were the overalls made of? They were--?

IANNACONE: I think they were a cotton. I think.

DUNHAM: Did you have to buy them yourselves?

IANNACONE: I don't think. I don't remember buying them. Maybe it was given to us. And a lot of people said, "I bet you made a lot of money." At the time, it was good. Pardon me. We made about $60 a week, $65. Which we were grateful for. If you didn't have much of a job, that was being rich. Right?

DUNHAM: Working how many hours?

IANNACONE: Eight hours.

DUNHAM: For five days a week, or six?

IANNACONE: Yeah. Sometimes even more. In fact, we didn't have off for Christmas or anything like that.

DUNHAM: Would you get overtime, or--?

IANNACONE: No. I think it was straight time. You would work, and maybe when you are in your seventh or eighth day, maybe you were given a day off. Something like that.

DUNHAM: So safety-wise, you mentioned the woman with the hair. What other kind of injuries did you hear about?

IANNACONE: The only thing that might have astounded me the one time: I heard this big noise, and I was working, like, on the second floor of a patrol bomber. And a big thing fell down. Put a hole in the thing. I don't know what it was. I don't know what it was, really. But that was scary.

DUNHAM: Right near you, it came down?

IANNACONE: Yeah. I'd say about thirty feet from me, which was really something. But we survived.

DUNHAM: Well, you started to say about money, so maybe you were saying it wasn't considered that big a--I mean, what kind of work had you been doing before? Had you done work? Or is this straight out of high school

IANNACONE: Well, I had a fancy job at--remember Snellenberg's [N. Snellenburg & Company] used to be--they had two big stores, and it was separated by--I don't know--a little--but they--

DUNHAM: Is that a department store, or--?

IANNACONE: Yeah.

DUNHAM: Sorry.

IANNACONE: A department store. And they called me in the office and asked if I would like this job. I said, "What job?" They said, "Well, you have to take the money from the one Snellenberg's to the other. But we'll have two policemen with you." So I thought it was a big deal, and it was. So, with it all sealed up and one policeman on either side, they'd walk me through this place, deliver the money, then walk me back.

DUNHAM: Why do you think they picked you for that?

IANNACONE: I don't know. They said they looked at my background. They thought I 00:48:00was intelligent enough to do it. You know?

DUNHAM: Do you remember what it paid to do that?

IANNACONE: I don't remember. Probably no more than the other stuff, because it's wartime.

DUNHAM: Oh, that was during the war? But that--

IANNACONE: Yeah.

DUNHAM: --was before--

IANNACONE: But see, I would probably rivet in-between, and work--no, no, because I worked at Snellenberg's. I don't know what that was, but probably sales in-between.

DUNHAM: You mean you might have done it while you were still working at the Philadelphia Navy yard?

IANNACONE: No, I guess not. I don't know if it was before that or what. But I know I thought, well, nowadays, I'd never attempt it. Even though you have policeman with you, you know, so much goes on that--But I have had nice jobs.

DUNHAM: Well, so you worked at the Philadelphia Navy yard for three years?

IANNACONE: Three and a half years.

DUNHAM: Well, what was the makeup of the workforce like when you first got there? Do you know in terms of women and men, in terms of ethnicity, or, you know, where folks were from--

IANNACONE: Well--

DUNHAM: --around the country?

IANNACONE: --the girls all kind of stuck together. But I've got to tell you this: we would have twenty minutes or so for lunch. But we had a nickelodeon there. We would gobble down the lunch or whatever, and we'd dance for ten minutes.

DUNHAM: The nickelodeon, is that a jukebox?

IANNACONE: Yeah. And they'd had that there. I guess it was some sort of relief, and we all liked to dance. And we'd dance with the girls. We were all girls.

DUNHAM: Just the girls did that? The guys didn't--

IANNACONE: Just the girls.

DUNHAM: --join in? OK. And what did you have for lunch on a typical day there? Did you bring your own, or--

IANNACONE: I'm trying to figure out. I imagine a sandwich of some sort. I really don't remember that much about the lunch.

DUNHAM: Did they ever have entertainment at the--

IANNACONE: Oh, yes. We'd have, like, Lucille Ball. We'd have real well-known 00:50:00stars, because they were selling bonds at the time. And--

IANNACONE: Were they performing, or they were just making an appearance, and--

DUNHAM: They would make an--

IANNACONE: --selling--

DUNHAM: --appearance, and did a little talking, and they'd get a terrific reception, you know? And there were quite a few of them. Lucille Ball I remember. And there were a couple of men that were good actors, too, or popular. And it was a big deal. You wouldn't see them otherwise, you know?

IANNACONE: Were you singing at all at the time?

DUNHAM: Sitting?

IANNACONE: Singing at all at the time?

DUNHAM: Oh, yes, I probably was. When I was on the afternoon shift, of course I didn't. You know? You have a job, you stick to the job. And it was fine. And then after that, for a long time, I sang, too.

IANNACONE: Where would you sing?

IANNACONE: Anyplace. One time, my husband, he was a bowler, too. He had a 00:51:00bowling thing. And I sang there. They had a band there, and the one guy that was running the show said, "Would you like to sing on the stage?" And I said, "Certainly, I would." So I sang two or three numbers. If you get a good hand then you keep singing, right?

DUNHAM: Who were your favorite singers of the time?

IANNACONE: Oh, well, I always liked [Frank] Sinatra. And we didn't have much of the jump music, you know? Perry Como. Like the Glenn Miller band [the Glenn Miller Orchestra] I thought was terrific. And they had a nice group that sang together. They had, I think, one woman and four men sang. And they were good. Excuse me--I sound terrible!

DUNHAM: Oh, no worries. Do you need--

IANNACONE: With this cold! [laughter]

DUNHAM: Yeah. Do you need a tissue, or you want to take a break, or--?

IANNACONE: But all in all, I'd say I led a very interesting life. [blows nose]

DUNHAM: Do you mind if I ask you a few more questions--

IANNACONE: Sure.

DUNHAM: --about it? Are you doing OK? And we can take a break if you like, too.

IANNACONE: No, I'm fine.

DUNHAM: OK, OK. Well, did you the find work challenging? Did you experience any physical changes when you were doing the work?

IANNACONE: Oh, yeah. Like some people say, "How could you climb up to the second floor?" I said, "That's part of the job." You don't question it. You want to do a job, you want to do it right, you do it. And I always got nice results from the bosses. That I did good work, and they were pleased to have me on the team, and--

DUNHAM: You mentioned that you were small enough to work in the--

IANNACONE: It's a small opening to get into the gas tank. And a lot of those women were taller than I am, and bigger. And they could never get in there.

DUNHAM: So you had to actually, like, crawl in?

IANNACONE: I have to crawl in. And while you are in there, you hear all this noise of the riveting. But you know what section you are on, and you have to 00:53:00give her [knocks] the OK--

DUNHAM: And you have--

IANNACONE: --when you are done.

DUNHAM: --light? Or how do you see?

IANNACONE: You had a kind of light, but it had a lot of gook in there too. Like--

DUNHAM: "Gook?"

IANNACONE: --around--it was like a green-colored--not tar, but something very sticky.

DUNHAM: Would that get all over you, then, kind of, or--

IANNACONE: No, because it would stick near where they seamed the--So you--

DUNHAM: But there was enough light where you could see clearly?

IANNACONE: Yeah. Yeah. There was some sort of light. And mostly, the lights of the rivets coming in, you know? So they were dead-set in there.

DUNHAM: Was doing this work--was it fun?

IANNACONE: I thought it was. And it was different. You know? I am not great for sitting doing an office job. I don't like sitting, so this was fun. It was moving around and whatnot.

DUNHAM: Were you ever nervous about doing it?

IANNACONE: No. The one time I got a little scary when I was in the gas tank, and 00:54:00I thought that that green stuff smelled too strong. So I asked to get out of it for that. So later on, then, I did a lot of outside work. You know? But you know, it was all part of you figure you are doing a war effort job.

DUNHAM: What was the sense of patriotism? And were there signs about patriotism? Were there signs about women's role in working--

IANNACONE: No--

DUNHAM: --do you recall?

IANNACONE: --I don't remember too many signs.

DUNHAM: But what was your feeling? Was it just a job, or--

IANNACONE: I thought, if that's the job, you do what you are told to do. You know? And I figured they know more than I do what they want done, right? So--And after a while, we had a woman that was the head of our group. She seemed to be all right. Some didn't like her, but you know, a lot of people don't like bosses because they are bosses.

DUNHAM: Was she over any men workers?

IANNACONE: Over what?

DUNHAM: Did she manage any men?

IANNACONE: No.

DUNHAM: It was all women in your group? Because men might be more sensitive to having a woman manager--

IANNACONE: Yeah. Right.

DUNHAM: --at the time.

IANNACONE: But she had a man that she ended up going with him, but he was kind of a ruler in our section, too. So they were kind of both leaders, you know?

DUNHAM: What was dating life there? Was there much fraternization, kind of, among the men and women? Kind of--

IANNACONE: Many what?

DUNHAM: Much dating between the men and women--

IANNACONE: Oh, I guess--

DUNHAM: --at the job?

IANNACONE: Oh, yeah. Well, I was already going with my husband, and a lot of the sailors, they would come in and ask me to go out. I said, "I'm going steady with somebody." Well, only one, I said, "No, I'm not interested." So I stuck to my--you know? I was told rules are rules, and that's it, so--

DUNHAM: Yeah. How you had been raised.

IANNACONE: But some girls I'm sure dated some of the bosses and whatnot. But most of them stuck to--the girls I was real chummy with, we felt the same.

DUNHAM: I didn't ask: where were you living at this time? Were you living with your family, or who were you--

IANNACONE: Oh, yeah. I was living with my family in South Philly, Sixteenth and Wharton.

DUNHAM: So your father and everyone had moved--

IANNACONE: Oh, yeah.

DUNHAM: --to South Philly by that time?

IANNACONE: No. In fact, when I got married, I lived in that apartment. All us girls--the sisters and my father.

DUNHAM: So when you were in high school, you lived where?

IANNACONE: When I was in high school, I lived--let me see--oh! I was in around Valley Forge. Then after I graduated, before I went to the Navy yard, we were told to move to Philly. We thought we ought to move to Philly, because the jobs are more plentiful there. So we did.

DUNHAM: So the whole family moved there?

IANNACONE: All my sisters and my father.

DUNHAM: And your father, had he changed jobs by that point? Or what was his job?

IANNACONE: I don't know if he was doing another job. I think it was another job--

DUNHAM: He had worked--

IANNACONE: --I think, because--

DUNHAM: --at Bethlehem Steel before?

IANNACONE: Yeah. But no, we were out of there, so he was probably--he did a lot of carpentry work. So lots of private carpentry work. He could--

DUNHAM: Did he or any of your brothers or sisters do wartime work like you were?

IANNACONE: Well, see, some of my sisters were married by then. Now, I didn't think they did--no, they worked mostly in the factories, sewing factories, clothing factories.

DUNHAM: So what kind of pay did they get compared to you, do you think?

IANNACONE: Well, they didn't make real big money, I don't think. Like I said, singing, I was getting $15 a night. Some girls were making $15 a week.

DUNHAM: So you had already--

IANNACONE: You know? So--

DUNHAM: --had some taste of that. But it was still really good money compared to--

IANNACONE: And I liked what I was doing, which made it nicer.

DUNHAM: So what were you doing with your money?

IANNACONE: Well, when I graduated from high school--listen to this--I had $250 in the bank. That's a lot of money! So--So my sisters were sensible with a 00:58:00dollar, too. But they didn't make as much as I did.

DUNHAM: So while you were working all those years during the war, you were saving most of your money?

IANNACONE: Well, no. We gave $15 a week, all of us. My sister was such an ace. She was nineteen. She took $15 each from all of us, made us a nice lunch or dinner, and then every five or six weeks, she'd say, "You don't have to pay this week. I'm a little ahead in the money. I'm taking you all out for lunch." Now, wasn't that nice? She was really a doll.

DUNHAM: Because she made all your lunches, and then you all had dinner together?

IANNACONE: Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. We always had dinner together.

DUNHAM: Every night?

IANNACONE: Every night, right. So it made it night. So there were about--let's see--now, one sister lived elsewhere, I think. Yeah. About five or six of us altogether.

DUNHAM: As the years went on there--and I know you said you had more and more 00:59:00workers, because you had multiple shifts--did the makeup of the workers begin to change? Where they were coming from? If their ethnicities--

IANNACONE: Not really, because like I said, I worked there three and a half years, and I was very happy with conditions and all. After that, I don't know.

DUNHAM: Did you have African-American workers there?

IANNACONE: I'm sure we did. I don't think many. But you know, people didn't look at them as somebody else. You know: another worker. That's what we looked at.

DUNHAM: But sometimes, I've heard there were still challenges, and it was still--

IANNACONE: I imagine--

DUNHAM: --hard.

IANNACONE: --there were. No, we never had that trouble. Not to my knowledge.

DUNHAM: Did you join a union?

IANNACONE: No. We never even talked about unions.

DUNHAM: So you never had--did your--

IANNACONE: Because really, we were under the--what do you call--

DUNHAM: The Navy? You were civilian, but--

IANNACONE: Yeah. What do you call that? Civil service. In fact, when I left the Navy yard, I got a check for $200.

DUNHAM: For--

IANNACONE: Because I was in civil service. I didn't know they even paid you then. But anyway, I got a check for $200, which, I thought I was rich. [laughter]

DUNHAM: So do you know why you got that? I am not--

IANNACONE: For being there so many years, I think. I think it's $100 a year or something. Whatever.

DUNHAM: But when you left, you quit, it was still during--

IANNACONE: Oh, yeah.

DUNHAM: --the war?

IANNACONE: I retired.

DUNHAM: It wasn't that you were--

IANNACONE: From work.

DUNHAM: Well, I had heard that in Philadelphia in particular, even though it was a civil service job, but there were still some labor issues at times, and that--

IANNACONE: Oh, I'm sure there were.

DUNHAM: --folks would fight for things. But there weren't any threats of a strike that you recall?

IANNACONE: No, no.

DUNHAM: Or discussing with you those type of--

IANNACONE: No.

DUNHAM: --issues? No?

IANNACONE: Not yet.

DUNHAM: Like you mentioned if you worked certain days in a row, getting--or vacation time, or that. That was one of the things I read, since it was maybe more difficult to strike or adjust the wages.

IANNACONE: I think maybe we worked a month or so and got a day off or something. 01:01:00But we worked every day, you know? Holidays didn't mean a thing.

DUNHAM: And you took the bus to work?

IANNACONE: Oh, yeah. It took me about ten minutes. From Broad and Wharton to the Navy yard, about ten, fifteen minutes.

DUNHAM: And do you remember if there was ever any bus strikes--

IANNACONE: No.

DUNHAM: --by the drivers?

IANNACONE: I never heard of a strike. People were so glad to be working, I guess.

DUNHAM: Yeah, no. Along similar lines, I had just read about in '44--and it may have been after your time--that that was when they did first hire some black drivers, and that the actual existing drivers went on strike in response to that. So I was just curious if--

IANNACONE: A lot of problems can arise.

DUNHAM: So it's interesting. Well, so you said when we talked before we started rolling, at a certain time, they started rotating you on the shifts? What was that like when you--

IANNACONE: I think it was every month or so. Something like that. And you know, you worked a whole month, and you knew what you had to do, and four to twelve is 01:02:00no problem. The only thing: one time, I got off at Broad and Wharton, I had to walk two blocks to get home, and I could hear footsteps behind me. And I didn't like it.

DUNHAM: Getting off at midnight?

IANNACONE: Yeah. So I walked faster and faster. I got to the front door where I lived, and I locked the door. And there was nothing after that.

DUNHAM: But you still worked after the midnight shift and you--

IANNACONE: Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah.

DUNHAM: But did you do anything to--

IANNACONE: I worked there--

DUNHAM: Did you walk with somebody after that, or--

IANNACONE: --and then I went back--and that's when, at 5:30 in the morning, you'd really get sleepy--

DUNHAM: So when you worked the--

IANNACONE: --that twelve to eight shift.

DUNHAM: OK. So how did you deal with that? That's dangerous.

IANNACONE: Well--

DUNHAM: You're doing physical work.

IANNACONE: --after a few days, you learned to get enough sleep, and just make sure you stay awake.

DUNHAM: Did you ever see or hear of anybody, especially in the swing or graveyard shift, sleeping on the job?

IANNACONE: No. Never.

DUNHAM: Or other times?

IANNACONE: No.

DUNHAM: Sometimes I heard of maybe hanky-panky--

IANNACONE: If they were, I didn't notice. You know?

DUNHAM: When you worked those shifts, was it the same pay? Sometimes I heard you got a pay increase if you worked the night shift.

IANNACONE: I am not sure. But I am sure if there was an increase, we got it, for the different shifts.

DUNHAM: Well, what were you doing for fun during that time? You were saving a lot of money, but you had good money, too, right?

IANNACONE: Yeah. I'm trying to think.

DUNHAM: Did you go to the USO [United Service Organization] dances?

IANNACONE: I would dance when I could. Nine to four or the twelve to eight. You had to be home early to be ready for work. You know? But it's amazing how you can manage if you want to. And of course, movies was a big deal then, you know?

DUNHAM: What do you remember? Tell me about the movies. What were the theaters you would go to, and what--

IANNACONE: Well, it was--

DUNHAM: --do you remember about--

IANNACONE: --Savoia Theater, and the Broadway Theater on Broad Street in South Philly. Savoyer Theater I liked because--well, as my kids grew, I would take them there. If my husband had the afternoon shift working, well, then, I would 01:04:00take them to a movie together.

DUNHAM: But during the war, you would go, and they would have the newsreels, and--

IANNACONE: Oh, yeah.

DUNHAM: What else would they have? Would there be entertainment, or--?

IANNACONE: Well, as far as Savoia Theater, often, every other Saturday, they would have an opera. Which was in the theater, in the movies, you know? But it was nice. Because I always liked that kind of music. And there was another theater there; {Hammer?}, I think, was down further. But I managed to keep busy. I never sat and wondered what I should be doing. I always did something.

DUNHAM: So what were some of the other things you were doing?

IANNACONE: I'm trying to think. Maybe visiting friends, but you don't do that every day. I'm trying to think.

DUNHAM: Did you have any girlfriends that worked at the Philadelphia naval yard?

IANNACONE: Well, at the Navy yard, I made four or five good friends. And of course, they're all gone now.

DUNHAM: Where were they from?

IANNACONE: North Philly, and one or two were from [New] Jersey. And they all tried to get along. You know, they were glad to be working.

DUNHAM: Were they all Italian-Americans?

IANNACONE: Oh, no. Well, Connie was part Italian. She was mostly Irish. And another girl was Polish. All different nationalities. And we accepted it. They were just another person.

DUNHAM: Did you meet any Jewish people there?

IANNACONE: Yes. One Jewish girl--that's right. She riveted with me. I'm trying to think. I can't think of her name. She seemed pretty nice. There were one or two of them, but mostly, they were Italian or Irish, or German, or whatever. But they were acceptable, I thought.

DUNHAM: You mentioned the selling of the war bonds. Did you buy war bonds at the time?

IANNACONE: Oh, yes. I bought and bought. In fact, my girlfriend Connie, we were very good--she is also from a large family. She was Irish and Italian. And they were renting the house, and they wanted to buy it, and they were a little short. So Connie said, "My mother said, if possible, could you lend her some money so we could--?" I said certainly I could. I said, "I'll cash in some of my bonds." I lent her $300. She never got over it, her mother. Every time when you go in the house and her mother would hear I come, she'd say, "This Lee owns a corner of this house." [laughter] They always gave it back. But you know, that's what friends are for: to help them when they need help, right?

DUNHAM: Absolutely. Well, what else do you remember about--particularly the Philadelphia naval yard experiences there? Stuff I haven't--

IANNACONE: The what?

DUNHAM: --asked you about? At your job, during the war, at the naval yard? What do you remember? Were there Navy personnel there alongside civilian? Or was it all civilian?

IANNACONE: Once in a while, we'd have somebody who worked, I guess, for the government check our work and whatnot. And we had a sheet made out; our boss would fill it out every day, every shift, you know? How long it took you to work, and how much time you were allowed to spend. So there wasn't too much goofing off, you know?

DUNHAM: Did you get--

IANNACONE: I guess there was if you didn't know it, you know? But--

DUNHAM: If you--

IANNACONE: --everybody seemed to be doing their job.

DUNHAM: Did you get formal evaluations, or--?

IANNACONE: Not really. We were told more than written out what's expect of us, and--

DUNHAM: What might be something that you might be told, or someone else might have been told?

IANNACONE: I don't know. I don't think anything extraordinary.

DUNHAM: Did people ever write on the planes or ships, or engrave anything on them? Like a message to the soldiers, or that kind of thing?

IANNACONE: If they did, I didn't see any, I don't think.

DUNHAM: Sometimes, I've just heard stories--

IANNACONE: Oh, one--

DUNHAM: --that that--

IANNACONE: --time, my girlfriend Connie and I were talking. And I don't know if she wanted a cigarette or something. And she said something to me, and said no or something. She hit the thing, and hit the machine where the cigarettes were. Do you know, she got called in the office, and I had to go with. I said, "That was all accidental." She was talking to me." But they'd think maybe she wanted to destroy something. They were careful about everything like that. She said that was embarrassing. I said, "Well, I happen to know you were talking to me, looking at me, and poking this way." And poked into the--But otherwise--And we wore our badges. That was most important.

DUNHAM: Why is that?

IANNACONE: I don't know. I guess part of the job. There is a uniform and the 01:09:00badge. So if anybody wanted to--a special person--they would look at their badge and know the number and whatnot, and--

DUNHAM: What was fashion like at the time you were a dancer and singer? I mean, did it change? Did you see it changing during the war, you know, related to--

IANNACONE: Oh, well--

DUNHAM: --women wearing pants--

IANNACONE: --the skirts--

DUNHAM: --to work?

IANNACONE: --if anybody had a skirt on, it was a lot longer. And another thing I noticed two or three times: if we had rain, you got caught in the rain and you were wearing crepe, that would get wet and really come up.

DUNHAM: If you were wearing what?

IANNACONE: Crepe. The material crepe.

DUNHAM: Was that for work, or that was social--

IANNACONE: That was--

DUNHAM: --crepe?

IANNACONE: --to get there. To get to work, I guess. Anyhow, the thing would crawl way up, because that material does. If it's wet, it just crawls up, so--

DUNHAM: And then what do you do?

IANNACONE: Then, I guess, if you were wearing it, you wouldn't wear it again.

DUNHAM: Did you wear it at all, or--

IANNACONE: No. I wore the one-piece to go to work and come home, and I never worked in-between. Maybe some of those girls were going to go out after work; I 01:10:00don't know. But on the four to twelve shift, do you know we used to go to twelve o'clock Mass, the whole bunch of us? [phone rings]

DUNHAM: Oh, yeah.

IANNACONE: Yeah.

DUNHAM: Do you need to get that? Let me--

IANNACONE: Yeah.

DUNHAM: --pause for just a sec. Sorry. [break in audio]

IANNACONE: I think we would get, a month--like so many days, you would get a day off or something. I don't remember that.

DUNHAM: We kind of talked about socializing around your shift. What would you do with your days off?

IANNACONE: Well, if you worked four to twelve, you had to catch up with your laundry and whatnot, and stuff like that. Twelve to eight, you could have gone to a movie, as long as you were ready to work for the twelve to eight shift. You know? Everything was timing, you know. You had to be careful.

DUNHAM: You wore your work outfit on the bus and all. Did you or other women, did men ever comment on that, or--? You know, it was kind of a new thing to see women--

IANNACONE: You mean about clothes? What we were wearing?

DUNHAM: Yeah, about wearing your--

IANNACONE: Oh, we'd--

DUNHAM: --work clothes--

IANNACONE: --discuss it, you know. Of course, dresses were a lot longer then.

DUNHAM: But were you wearing your, like, overalls or your work outfit on the bus? Or did you change?

IANNACONE: Oh, to get to work and--

DUNHAM: Yeah, to and--

IANNACONE: Oh, yeah.

DUNHAM: --from work?

IANNACONE: I would always wear it to work and to come home. So I never bothered changing.

DUNHAM: But did anybody ever comment on it, or show--

IANNACONE: Not really. But they'd look and they'd say, "Oh, you work at the Navy yard?"

DUNHAM: So they knew? They knew?

IANNACONE: They knew, yeah. Well, one girl said to me, "That's wonderful." I said, "Well, if you want to work there, go get a civil service test and all." But they weren't that interested in working there.

DUNHAM: Did you see some women, though, start to wear pants socially, outside of work?

IANNACONE: Not until about a couple years after I graduated, it got bigger, wearing the pants.

DUNHAM: A couple years into the war, you mean? So you--

IANNACONE: Yeah, yeah.

DUNHAM: --started to see that? Yeah?

IANNACONE: Yeah, that's right. Because otherwise, you wore regular--you know?

DUNHAM: So did you have feelings about that, or other people, or--?

IANNACONE: Well, I never liked pants too much, but I figured, well, I had to wear it to work, so--If I was going out, I'd wear a dress, you know? To be different. [laughter]

DUNHAM: What about with rationing and--? Do you remember rationing and conserving, and did you--

IANNACONE: Oh, yeah. Fashioning, I think, was very important. You wanted to look right, what you were doing. And most everybody wore approximately the same. You know what I mean? They didn't get into slacks until later, I think.

DUNHAM: But rationing in terms of coupons for things that were scarce, that there wasn't much of at the time, like meat, nylons, those types of things?

IANNACONE: Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah.

DUNHAM: And recycling? Did you--

IANNACONE: That's right. You had to be careful that you were at the right place if you wanted nylons and whatnot, and plan ahead. You know, if you wanted to do something, wanted a dress, you wanted to be sure you planned ahead.

DUNHAM: So were there things you had to do without?

IANNACONE: Oh, yeah. Some things, I am sure there were some that you had to do without. You know, if you didn't have it. You know? But you always managed to work ahead so that you could have what you wanted.

DUNHAM: I know it wasn't spoken a lot of at the time, but did you know, at work or socially, any men or women who were gay or lesbian?

IANNACONE: No, not really. If they were, we didn't discuss it. We didn't know enough about it to really bring it up, you know? But as far as smoking, I tried once. And a girl said to me--I thought, I'm with you, I might as well learn to smoke. She said, "You have to inhale." I did. That was the first and last time. I near choked, and that was the end of it. That was just as well.

DUNHAM: Particularly as a singer, that's probably a good call. But a lot of people were smoking at the time.

IANNACONE: Oh, yeah. A lot of them. In fact, my two daughters were--I'm talking 01:14:00the last fifteen, twenty years--that they both cut out smoking. My granddaughter started; she cut it out. So that's--

DUNHAM: Did your father or mother smoke?

IANNACONE: No. My father would smoke a guitar--Would smoke a cigar once in a while. But not that much. And my brothers didn't even smoke that much. In fact, you'd try to think to yourself, how can people afford to smoke now, the price of what they are charging? So that's all part of it, too.

DUNHAM: Well, I think not as many do at this point, but--Did you know of women who got pregnant and who continued to work, or came back to work after having a child?

IANNACONE: Now, during the war, no. No.

DUNHAM: You know, there were sometimes a little bit older women who were 01:15:00working. Did you know of women who worked and had children, and how they dealt with daycare, or--?

IANNACONE: No. Most of the people I knew were within my age limit, you know?

DUNHAM: So were more without children?

IANNACONE: Yeah.

DUNHAM: Did you hear of the Port Chicago explosion out in California in July of 1944?

IANNACONE: I suppose I heard of it, because you would hear of all these things. But I don't know. I don't know much about it.

DUNHAM: Yeah, I was just checking. It's more familiar to our California interviewees, but I am always curious if you'd heard about it.

IANNACONE: I don't mean to interrupt, but did you hear of that explosion in Brussels [Belgium]?

DUNHAM: No.

IANNACONE: About five, six months ago?

DUNHAM: No, I don't think so.

IANNACONE: Well, my younger daughter was asked by students to be her monitor going to Paris [France]. She missed that by three hours.

DUNHAM: Wow. Wow. That's fortunate.

IANNACONE: Although she was just lucky. Five months ago, she was coming home 01:16:00from a wedding. About 10:30 at night, somebody came off [Route] 73 and went into {Sicklebill?} road, where she was driving, hit her with a tractor trailer.

DUNHAM: Hit her?

IANNACONE: Hit her.

DUNHAM: Her car?

IANNACONE: You can not believe. She has a little [Mazda] Miata. It got hit all around. She was in the car. Do you know she didn't have anything broken? They want her to go to a doctor because they are afraid of her muscles or something. But isn't that something? Of course, he got a ticket right away. A tractor trailer doesn't go right into another thing without stopping--another street, you know?

DUNHAM: Yeah, that's bizarre.

IANNACONE: So she looked at the car and she said, "I can't believe I'm alive." But thank god. She's lucky.

DUNHAM: Yeah. Well, I'm glad she's OK. Well, going back to the wartime, before you met your husband, did you know of other men, former classmates, who were in 01:17:00the military? Did you keep up with any--

IANNACONE: Yeah, some of the--

DUNHAM: --of them, or--?

IANNACONE: --fellows I graduated from high school--in fact, we lost two during the war, of my class. And of course, after that, you got to know so many that were in service, either enlisted or were drafted.

DUNHAM: Did you correspond with any of those, or--?

IANNACONE: Oh, yes. I did with a couple. Of course, I wrote to my husband every day when he was--

DUNHAM: So, yeah. Remind me again how you met your husband? So that was pretty early on during your work--

IANNACONE: Oh, yeah.

DUNHAM: --career?

IANNACONE: I would say before I graduated from high school--yeah--I met him.

DUNHAM: Oh, that early? OK.

IANNACONE: Because he was going to that store near where I lived, and he said to my sister, "Who's that girl?" "Oh," I said, "who's that guy?" She said, "By the way, he asked about you today. Wanted to know who you were." So she introduced me to him, and that was nice. And we went together about three years before we got married, because he was in service. And I said, "Get rid of the service first."

DUNHAM: Now, why was that--

IANNACONE: Well, I figured--

DUNHAM: --that you wanted to wait?

IANNACONE: --if something happened to him while I was in service, your whole life would change. You know? So I figured, let's just stay with it, you know? So I thought it was the best choice.

DUNHAM: Did you date anyone else during that time, or--?

IANNACONE: No. In fact, the Navy yard, a couple sailors asked me out. I said, "I'm going steady." "Oh, well, it's only one--" I said, "Well, I'm just not interested. Thank you." You have to stick to your guns, you know?

DUNHAM: So he was stationed elsewhere some of that time? Is that--

IANNACONE: He was stationed in Florida. In fact, his whole group went to Anzio [Italy] beachhead. They never came back. And he just didn't go then. You know what I mean? He--

DUNHAM: How come he didn't go?

IANNACONE: I don't know. I guess he wasn't supposed to go or something. He was in the infantry. But imagine. What a mess.

DUNHAM: That must be hard. Did you ever go down to Florida?

IANNACONE: Yes, but not while he was there. It just wasn't proper, you know? [laughter]

DUNHAM: Yeah, OK. Without being married. So what finally led to your being married after he was discharged?

IANNACONE: Yes. He was discharged in August or September, I think, and we married the next February.

DUNHAM: He was discharged in September of '43? You were married in '44?

IANNACONE: It must have been '43. Yeah. We got married in '44.

DUNHAM: And what was your wedding like?

IANNACONE: Very, very nice. We had a nice church wedding, and a Mass, which I am used to, and it was all very nice. And I had about four bridesmaids: two girls that I worked with at the Navy yard. And like I said, they are gone now. But they were real good, close friends. And that was about it, I guess.

DUNHAM: Who were your other two bridesmaids?

IANNACONE: Two girls that I knew well from--one worked in a record shop where I 01:20:00went by there to buy records. And I'm trying to think who the other one was. But anyhow, it was very nice. I would have been married in February seventy-three years. Would you believe it?

DUNHAM: Wow. Do you still have a record player?

IANNACONE: Oh, yeah.

DUNHAM: Yeah? Do you still play records?

IANNACONE: Yeah, I still play records, right. Because I like the old tunes. Right. They are nice.

DUNHAM: Do you remember the first record you ever bought?

IANNACONE: Oh, god, no. I don't. Probably Glenn Miller.

DUNHAM: One of the first ones? OK. Glenn Miller?

IANNACONE: [laughter] Probably Glenn Miller, so--Because I thought his music was terrific. And it's funny: he died the day my older daughter was born. Would you believe it? December 15 of '44. I think in the Mediterranean [Sea] or something. But--

DUNHAM: So you left your job at the Navy yard--

IANNACONE: Yeah. I was a few months pregnant, and so sick.

DUNHAM: Oh, so you were already pregnant when you left--

IANNACONE: Yeah.

DUNHAM: --your job?

IANNACONE: Oh, yeah. That's why I left. Because I couldn't take getting up. I was sick as a dog for about six months. I lost about fifteen pounds.

DUNHAM: You lost while you were pregnant?

IANNACONE: Because I couldn't take the sickness. And after a while, I gained that, plus. [laughter]

DUNHAM: So you didn't leave the Navy yard just because you were getting married?

IANNACONE: Oh, no. No.

DUNHAM: It was because you were too sick to work?

IANNACONE: I left because I was a couple months pregnant, and I was so sick. You couldn't hold a job. I mean, how can you be sick as a dog every morning?

DUNHAM: Although you had to leave, were you sad about leaving the job, or--?

IANNACONE: Yeah, yeah. They were all very nice about it. And of course, I kept seeing a lot of the friends that I was chummy with.

DUNHAM: After you gave birth, was it ever a consideration to try to go back, or--?

IANNACONE: No. I figured if you have kids, you might as well raise them, you know?

DUNHAM: And what was your husband doing then?

IANNACONE: He worked for the Pennsylvania Railroad then.

DUNHAM: Oh, right. Right. That's when he started--or he was already working with them--

IANNACONE: He was already--

DUNHAM: --before?

IANNACONE: --working with them. He lied. He said he was twenty-one, and he was nineteen when he went to work for them. You needed a job, so you lied, right?

DUNHAM: Why was he supposed to be twenty-one for that?

IANNACONE: I guess the railroad, that's what they expected. And three of my brother-in-laws worked for railroads. Would you believe it? One worked for one of the Jersey lines, and one worked for the Penn--anyhow, there were three or four railroads they worked for. Pennsy Railroad [Pennsylvania Railroad], the Central Railroad for the shore. And all four of them worked for the railroads.

DUNHAM: When you and your husband got married, did you live on your own right away, or--?

IANNACONE: Oh, yeah. We lived on our own right away.

DUNHAM: So where did you--

IANNACONE: Went into an apartment in Philly.

DUNHAM: So what was that transition like?

IANNACONE: Oh, well, it was ni--

DUNHAM: You had lived with your family all your life? Yeah. And so--

IANNACONE: Yeah. But of course, they lived in Philly, too, so we saw each other often.

DUNHAM: You still got together for a lot of your--

IANNACONE: Oh, yeah.

DUNHAM: --meals and all?

IANNACONE: Oh, yeah. Got together often.

DUNHAM: Was his family local, too?

IANNACONE: Oh, yeah. They were from Philly, and they were very friendly. Received me nicely, liked me a lot, so--And guess what? Of all the brothers, and all the brothers and their wives have gone, I'm the only wife living. Would you believe it?

DUNHAM: I believe it.

IANNACONE: Out of about seven of them. I went to a viewing the other day. A nephew died. He looked so much like Richard Gere. So much like him. Well, I went to the viewing, and right away, his wife said to me, "I am so glad to see you. You are the only aunt living." Well, it's true. That's the way it goes. Well, I 01:24:00refuse to go. [laughter]

DUNHAM: Well, you seem very youthful still. So through the end of the war, you give birth and--

IANNACONE: And when the older one--

DUNHAM: --raising your young child?

IANNACONE: --was about near five years old, I had my second daughter.

DUNHAM: OK. Well after the war. Well, I wanted to ask: do you remember the end of the war? V-E Day [Victory in Europe Day] and V-J Day [Victory in Japan Day]?

IANNACONE: Oh, I'll never forget Broad Street as long as I live. Newspaper all over, and people cheering. It was something you can never forget.

DUNHAM: Were you with your husband and child at the time, or--? Do you remember?

IANNACONE: Yeah. He could have been working that day, as far as I know. Because he worked different days, and shifts. But that was something I will never forget. Broad Street, you couldn't see the street, because newspapers were all over. Everybody was so thrilled. People tooting. It was something to be proud of, I'll tell you, and glad about.

DUNHAM: And then for you after the war, did you stay in the first place you got in Philly, or--?

IANNACONE: Oh, yeah. We stayed there for a while. Then we moved to another apartment. And then we rented a house from his aunt. And one brother-in-law lived in Williamstown [New Jersey]. He said, "Why don't you move to Jersey?" And I said to my husband, "That sounds good." So we came to see it. You won't believe what we paid for this house sixty-five years ago: $6,500. And of course, I am very happy I'm here. I like it fine.

DUNHAM: You have been here how many years, again, now?

IANNACONE: Sixty-five. February or January, it'll be sixty-six. And when we moved--

DUNHAM: That's $100 per year. [laughter]

IANNACONE: Yeah. When we moved there, my younger daughter was eleven months old. She is now sixty-six. She is the one that's the professor of languages. And they 01:26:00are both lovely girls. They really--

DUNHAM: What school--

IANNACONE: --are.

DUNHAM: --does she teach? What school did she teach at?

IANNACONE: She taught at Glassboro High School, then Rowan University. She attended Rowan University when it was Glassboro State, then she taught at Rowan, and now she teaches at a community college. And she liked it a lot. Really likes it. And my son-in-law was the principal in the middle school here in Williamstown. My son-in-law that died.

DUNHAM: Well, and we talked about before, your husband died very young--

IANNACONE: Forty-one--

DUNHAM: --too.

IANNACONE: --years old. He never saw his grandchildren. Well, my kids weren't married, so they didn't have any kids, of course, then. And he would have spoiled them to death, because he loved kids. And of course, he was very family oriented. So it was nice.

DUNHAM: So how did you deal with that tragedy?

IANNACONE: Well, pretty rough. The only thing helped: I had the two kids. I had 01:27:00to take care of them. So you devote all your time to them, and whatnot, and--And would you believe December 3 will be fifty-one years my husband's gone? Would you believe I had Mass said for fifty years, once a year? And I was going to do it this time, but they are so overloaded. You are only allowed four Masses on Saturday. So I thought, well, I might as well have the dinner for my kids, and on that day. So that's what we are going to do. And they are looking forward to it, too.

DUNHAM: Good. So what did you do to make ends meet after that?

IANNACONE: Well, I worked. And I worked here at the sweater mill--

DUNHAM: Had you been working at all during that time? Or you were focused on raising--

IANNACONE: Not--

DUNHAM: --the kids?

IANNACONE: --when the kids were young. Maybe a little bit; not much. But I worked there, and--

DUNHAM: I'm sorry.

IANNACONE: --I enjoyed it.

DUNHAM: And where did you work? Where was that, again, that you worked?

IANNACONE: On Saybrook Avenue here in Williamstown.

DUNHAM: At what company?

IANNACONE: It was called Lord Jeff. And I'll tell you, I had two bosses that you--the one, first boss, they were Jewish. We were in an older building. Very, very respectful; very nice and thoughtful. The second, then they sold it to an Irishman. He was terrific. Terrific boss. In fact, he would come to me about six times a year and say, "Lee, you did a very good job," and hand me a $100 bill. Isn't that nice? That went on about six times a year. But don't forget, you don't do anything for nothing. I had a lot of responsibility. I also made samples for twenty-six sweater companies. A couple of them were competitors, but nobody complained, so--Thirty-nine years I worked there.

DUNHAM: How do you make a sample? Was is that, that--

IANNACONE: Well, if they tell me they want a--we'll say a man's pullover--and 01:29:00they want all different sizes, like small, medium, and large, which take different stitches and whatnot. So I would make them and send it to them, and--

DUNHAM: How did you learn to do that?

IANNACONE: I learned on myself, by myself. I thought, that's simple enough to do. If somebody can do it, I can do it, right? [laughter] But you know, I used to knit a sweater once in a while. When I saw how fast those machines knit, I didn't bother [laughter] anymore. It was too fast.

DUNHAM: Could you create the samples with the machines, then? Or by hand?

IANNACONE: Yeah, I sent it. In fact, we would send it to the Lord Jeff--we used to send it--what's one of the bigger companies from one of the New England states?

DUNHAM: Oh, I don't know the East Coast well enough

IANNACONE: Oh, well. Anyhow--

DUNHAM: --probably.

IANNACONE: --we worked for Koret of California out of California, too. I did. Oh, yeah. Oh, anyhow, we would send the ones on the East Coast here. Oh, it's such a famous company! But anyhow, we would--

DUNHAM: I know--

IANNACONE: --have to send them--

DUNHAM: --Burlington Coat [Company], but that's--

IANNACONE: --a gross of sweaters. We went and put them in a box. They would examine them all. If one was a couple stitches off, we'd get the whole thing back. So we were very careful to have it exact. Because that was our lifetime, right? Our lifeline.

DUNHAM: So you continued doing that kind of work for many years.

IANNACONE: For thirty-nine years. Right.

DUNHAM: And then you stayed active with dancing--

IANNACONE: Oh, yes. Did you ever hear of Roseland [Ball Room], New York? It's--

DUNHAM: I--

IANNACONE: --the biggest dance hall in Manhattan. I went there for twenty-two years, every week. My girlfriend and I drove up there. She died about twenty-five years ago. But we would go up there and dance. We'd get there 2:30 in the afternoon, the place would be open. We'd dance, and have something to eat about seven o'clock, and then come home. We'd be home by twelve, and we'd have a good time. So that was nice.

DUNHAM: And you entered competitions?

IANNACONE: Oh, yeah. I was in a movie called Roseland.

DUNHAM: Oh, really?

IANNACONE: I don't know if you ever heard of the actress Eva Le Gallienne?

DUNHAM: Eva Lagalien? No--

IANNACONE: She was an old-time--

DUNHAM: --I am not sure.

IANNACONE: --actress. Well, she is in a movie, and the manager of the ballroom said to me, "Lee, get your partner and get in the middle. I want you as a backdrop."

DUNHAM: So when would this have been?

IANNACONE: Oh, god. I was about fifty then, I guess. But I enjoy everything.

DUNHAM: So in maybe the early seventies, or--yeah.

IANNACONE: Yeah. Let's see. I went there when I was--I was a widow, '41. I went there, I guess, and maybe forty-five years old. And--

DUNHAM: And you said you won a competition in Spain?

IANNACONE: Oh, yeah. That was an international thing, in Torremolinos, Spain. And I was thrilled to death, and when I got the award, I was thrilled, and I said to my girlfriend, "How would you like to take a hydrofoil? We'll go to northern Africa." And we did. We took a hydrofoil. I'm always ready to do 01:32:00[laughter] something.

DUNHAM: Wow. Now, what is a--I am not sure I know what a hydrofoil is.

IANNACONE: A hydrofoil, it's like an open ship.

DUNHAM: Like a boat? Oh, OK.

IANNACONE: Yeah. And she got seasick. I didn't, but--[laughter]

DUNHAM: Is it one that goes fast?

IANNACONE: It goes kind of fast, but it jumps a lot.

DUNHAM: It's bumpy? Bump? OK. This was in--

IANNACONE: Right.

DUNHAM: --on what kind of water?

IANNACONE: The Mediterranean, I guess. Yeah. But I have been to Europe about seven times. Well, I enjoy the languages, and I enjoy seeing--it's nice to read about stuff, but it's nice to see it. I have been the whole one side of the Mediterranean side of Italy. I have been to the Adriatric side; is where my people come from.

DUNHAM: And do you still have family there? Did you reconnect?

IANNACONE: Well, some of them I never knew, because, you know, they never came. But then I have been to Spain two or three times; I have been to Italy three times; I have been to Switzerland two or three times. I am trying to think where 01:33:00else. But it was all nice. But I thought the people in Italy that spoke the best English were those from Naples. And I took that trip all the way down to Naples, all the way down to--what's that island there? Oh. All the way down. It was nice. And I went on the Amalfi Drive. That was 2,500 feet above sea level. And you are looking down, and you think, boy, I better make it. [laughter] So it was nice.

DUNHAM: Do you still remember your Italian?

IANNACONE: Oh, yeah.

DUNHAM: And so it would always be--yeah.

IANNACONE: I still remember it well.

DUNHAM: And do you still sing?

IANNACONE: I sing once in a while, yeah. Of course, you don't sound like you did when you were thirty or forty. But there were a lot of occasions to sing then, 01:34:00too, you know? Now, a lot of people say to me, "Are you going to sing?" And I will say, "No, I am going to listen." You know? Give them a chance. I have had my chance, and enjoyed it. So let somebody else enjoy it now.

DUNHAM: Did you perform publicly anymore later in life, or--?

IANNACONE: Yeah, for a while. In fact, I did at my husband's bowling banquet. Somebody had asked me to sing, so I sang about three songs there. And it was nice. The band was nice, and it made it nice. But you know, I have had my share, and I figure, let somebody else do theirs.

DUNHAM: Well, I wanted to ask you: looking back on your wartime work--you know, the so-called "Rosie the Riveter" work, opportunity to do, quote/unquote, "men's work" during that time--how do you think that influenced your life, that opportunity and experience?

IANNACONE: Oh, I think it did a lot, because it shows if you want to do something, try it. You know you can do it. In fact, one man that I bowl says to 01:35:00me, "You know, I have to laugh when they say, 'Can woman do this and that?'" He said, "Look what they did during the war." Which is true. And if you have got to do it, and there was a shortage of men--they were in service--you do it.

DUNHAM: And how do you think that period and those opportunities might have influenced future generations and opportunities for women?

IANNACONE: Well, I think they are learning--women are learning--that you can do not only good mentally, but physically, they can do stuff, too. Like that riveting, I had to climb a flight or two to get to the gas tank. But you'd do. You just do it. And if you care enough, you want to see the job done well, so you do it. Well, I don't frighten too easily when it comes to work. You know?

DUNHAM: Or much of anything, I gather.

IANNACONE: Yeah. And if you have to work, you do it, you know? It's not done for you. Like somebody said to me, "How do you do so much at your age?" I said, 01:36:00"Well, number one, nobody is going to do it for you. And I learned a long time ago you do it while you're living. When you are dead, you are going to do nothing." So--[laughter] They said, "Right."

DUNHAM: And how did you get reconnected or hear about the Rosie the Riveter National Park or--

IANNACONE: Well, I got--

DUNHAM: --those types of things?

IANNACONE: --letters from them, from their main--the place in California.

DUNHAM: They found you? Or it was from some other--?

IANNACONE: I don't know if I wrote to them first. Sometimes you see advertisement and--you know? I don't realize how I did it. But I keep getting the letters from Tom Brokaw [Thomas John Brokaw].

DUNHAM: Yeah. So how did you get connected with him? I know he has done a lot of research around the Greatest Generation, the--

IANNACONE: He wondered if I would give a $25 donation to the what you call them, because they have a place in Alabama. He said they have my picture there and my name there or something. So--

DUNHAM: I wonder if that's part of the American Rosie the Riveter Association? I think they might be located there, the ARRA. But, great. Well, I guess the last 01:37:00thing, maybe: what does it mean to you to have your wartime homefront contribution recognized?

IANNACONE: Oh, it makes you feel good. You figured you didn't waste your time. Since you enjoyed it and you did good, why not have it mentioned, right?

DUNHAM: And is there anything else you'd like to add today that we didn't cover, from any time period?

IANNACONE: I don't think so. All I know is I have enjoyed my life. I enjoyed everything I've done. And because I enjoyed life, that helped me get over my husband's death, because he was quite young. I kept busy. I devoted a lot of time to the kids. I made sure I was interested in what they were doing. And it's been terrific. It really has. So I would say I lived a rather good life. And I am to live to be 100.

DUNHAM: Well, you are well on your way. Let me just ask something I was going to 01:38:00ask at the very beginning, but we got into your family and all: is there a story behind your name, "Letterina?"

IANNACONE: No. Except it means "little letter." Of course, we all have unusual--my parents were very great thinkers. We didn't do anything anybody else did. We're all Italian. We have no "Josephine," no "Philomena." We don't have a "Mary."

DUNHAM: Can you run through your siblings' names?

IANNACONE: Yeah. Well, my oldest brother's name, he is named for his grandfather; that's Aliote. I got a feeling way back, that must have been some French, you know? And my younger brother is Marino; we call him "Martin." My oldest sister Santarella.

DUNHAM: And your last name was Martino? Is that right?

IANNACONE: DiMartino. Now, we had to laugh, because my older sister--apparently, who take care of her--my parents, when they went to New York, or right about the 01:39:00birth of their children--her name is Santarella, which means "small saint." Well, they thought it was "Cinderella." You know, we called her "Cinderella" all her life. She is known as "Cindy." All her life. Then my second sister's name is Elnora. They called her "Laura." That's what we called her. The next one is Savina. We called her "Sarah." The next one is Lucia. We called her "Lucy." And we me is Letterina. And then the sister behind me is Rosina. We knew her as "Rosie." And my youngest sister is Annina, like some of the Russians, and "Nina." Our names are--

DUNHAM: Because those are--

IANNACONE: --a little diff--

DUNHAM: --mostly not traditional Italian names, then, you are saying? They are--

IANNACONE: Yeah. No, they are just what they thought was right. Like my father always said, "Think for yourself." You know? Be different. So [laughter] we are.

DUNHAM: I think individualism, as you called it a minute ago, is something that I see in a lot of the women who were Rosie the Riveters, and particularly a lot of the women who have lived and been so still--

IANNACONE: I guess--

DUNHAM: --independent and strong, as you are.

IANNACONE: Yeah. I guess they're up in their age as I am, too, maybe.

DUNHAM: Yeah. Ninety. Some in their hundreds. And I think to me, that sort of individualism and willing to try something different, as you talked about, is a big theme that I see running through them. Yeah. So is there anything else you'd like to say about that, about your--

IANNACONE: Yeah, I would say that--

DUNHAM: --parents or yourself?

IANNACONE: --I have had a very happy--even the death of my husband, I made sure I bought happiness around, for my children and everybody else. And I am very pleased with my background and my life. I didn't waste it. I always did something.

DUNHAM: Excellent. Well, that's a great note to close on.

IANNACONE: Now, even up here, I thought we ought to do something different. So one Easter, I thought, we ought to have a nice dressy hat contest, just to break 01:41:00the monotony. We did. So the boss said, "Lee should have got first prize." And one girl said, "She can't. She's the one that gave it." [laughter] But we always did something interesting.

DUNHAM: Well, it sounds like it. Well, thank you so much, Letterina, for participating today, and--

IANNACONE: Well, I--

DUNHAM: --sharing your stories.

IANNACONE: --appreciate this. I looked forward to you coming by.

DUNHAM: Yeah, my--

IANNACONE: I thought, somebody cares, right? [laughter]

DUNHAM: Absolutely! Many of us do. And this way, your voice can speak to future generations long after we are all gone. So thank you so much.

IANNACONE: I thank you, because it was interesting.

DUNHAM: OK. Great.

[End of Interview]