Frank Inami | Interview 1 | November 9, 2013

DUNHAM: Today is November 9, 2013. This is David Dunham and Candice Fukumoto-Dunham, from the Regional Oral History Office of UC Berkeley. We're here to interview Frank Inami, regarding his life experiences. But particularly as a UC Berkeley student and having his studies rudely interrupted. But we'll start at the beginning, and I'll turn things over to Candice.

FUKUMOTO: We'll begin with just your full name, date of birth, location, and family background.

INAMI: Okay. My name is Frank Kaoru, K-A-O-R-U, Kaoru Inami. Kaoru, I use that as a middle name. In fact, I think, as I recall, until the war started, legally, Kaoru was the name given to me in school, for example. But Kaoru, even in 00:01:00Japanese, is a difficult name to pronounce. Not only that, it's a sissy name, because it's usually used for girls. The only reason Dad named me Kaoru is because Dad only had a fourth grade education. But in that little community of Madera, there was a college graduate. So he went to this college graduate, Mr. Mochizuki, and said, "I want to name the first name for my son," in the Kanji, that is, the basic Chinese characters. So Mr. Mochizuki wrote out three Kanji, and they can all be read Kaoru, K-A-O-R-U, which as I mentioned, is rather 00:02:00difficult. But when you write the characters, the name Kaoru, usually used for women, is symmetrical. So Dad thought, gee, that's a good name. So that's how I got my name Kaoru.

Then when I started school, first grade in Madera, Lincoln Grammar School, they gave me a name, Frank, because--two reasons. One is Kaoru is difficult to say. Plus our neighbor was from Italy, De Cesari, and they named me Frank because of Frank Sinatra and so forth. It's an Italian name. So my next sister, Lillian, 00:03:00and then Joe and Thomas. Dad would go to the neighbor and say, "Hey, what shall I name my daughter or son?" That's how I got my name Kaoru. Now, the characters when you write it, means good smell. Fragrance. Which is appropriate for a woman, but for a man, as I say, it's kind of sissified. The other character that he should've picked has something to do with a bear or animal that has four strong legs, see? So too bad he didn't pick that one, but I got stuck with that Kaoru name.

DUNHAM: It's turned out okay.

INAMI: Yeah. So I was born April 25, 1921, in Madera, which is just north of 00:04:00Fresno. Madera is about twenty miles north of Fresno. Madera was, as I recall, about 2,000 population at that time. Of course, like most cities, they're up to about 30,000 today; but that's, remember, 1921. So we had a truck garden, Now, people say, what's a garden? You grow vegetables for making a living. At that time, as you may know, Japanese, Chinese and Koreans could not become US citizens. You could never become naturalized. Then to make matters worse, they wanted to kick us out, essentially. They had an anti-alien land law, which means 00:05:00if you were an alien, you could not own land, see? So my parents were restricted in what they could do. So they bought this ten acres in Madera to raise vegetables. But they couldn't own it, so they put it in my name. See, here I am ten years old, running a ten-acre vegetable farm, see? Well, to even make things worse, there's a part of the law that's called escheat, E-S-C-H-E-A-T. Escheat law. Now, these days, they use that for drug dealers. That part of the law says you can confiscate anything that that person has done which is against the law. 00:06:00So the drug dealers, they take away their home, they take away their money. Of course, they have a lot of money, cash, stashed away. So they did the same thing to us. Because, they said, we were doing something illegal, they would take away our land, see? After we have cultivated the land and it was highly productive, they would take it away from us. But fortunately, the lawyer, Mr. Barcroft, in town, is a very nice guy. He had made a guardian, who looked after me. Now, this guardian was Mr. Nishimoto, and he was born and raised in Hawaii. Then he married, and just happened to move to Madera. So he was my guardian, so they 00:07:00couldn't touch us, see? So we were exempt. But for example, there's a couple other families in Madera, through the escheat process, they lost all their property.

DUNHAM: So this is in the thirties that that would happen, the escheat law?

INAMI: Right. Well, not only 1930s, but it went all the way up to just before the war. With the anti-Japanese feeling during the war, even though we were incarcerated elsewhere, the land was still, for example, in my name. So our neighbor, Mr. Naito, was a prime example. He had put his daughter, who was a few years younger than I am, see? So they were able to successfully--by they, I mean 00:08:00the government of the State of California-- successfully able to take away his land. So when they came back from the evacuation, somebody else had bought the land. I think they tried to get it back, but that part of the law apparently has pretty definite--apparently, it's only used when illegal things are done.

So that's why I was running ten acres of vegetables. Dad and Mother, as soon as we were able, we would go out and pick the tomatoes and the cucumbers and whatever, and Dad would either--well, my mother would stay home and there was 00:09:00kind of fruit stand there. People in Madera would come and buy the vegetables from us. I'm the oldest, and there's seven of us. The youngest is Lucille. She's seventeen years younger than I am. So I started out at the beginning, and she's seventeen years younger than I am. So that's Lucille, and there's seven of us altogether. So we all went to Lincoln Grammar School, which was walking distance. Then a little farther, to Madera High, for high school.DUNHAM: What do you remember about Lincoln Elementary?

INAMI: Lincoln Grammar School, the first four years, fourth grade, everything 00:10:00went along fine. I didn't know the difference. For example, I was the shortest kid in the class. So for example, when we played baseball, instead of pitching to me, they would roll it to me and I'd whack it, see? At that time, I didn't realize it was a kind of reverse--well, maybe not reverse, but--discrimination, because I was so short. At that time, fourth grade, Dad took us to Japan--of course, not all seven of us, but only four of us, I think--because he wanted to see his mother. His mother was not too well, so he took us all to Japan. We stayed about six months, and then came back to the farm. So I went back to 00:11:00school at Lincoln Grammar School.

Now, seventh and eighth grades I remember distinctly, because in the seventh and eighth grades, we were able to pick the class president for the class. For some reason, because of my size and because I was getting good grades, I was picked as the president. So first two semesters in seventh grade, I was able to be president of the class. Then the first part of the eighth grade, I was president of the eighth grade, first half. Now, second half, there was a campaign. One of the teachers said we should have a political campaign. So I got defeated by a good friend of mine, Bob Stevenson. Remember, I'm the only Japanese American in 00:12:00the class. I'm the only minority, except for a Mexican, Robert Flores. He was Mexican descent. So he'd say, "I'll call you Pancho, which means Frank," he says. He says, "You call me Roberto." I didn't realize till years later that Pancho is a kind of a diminutive name given to little kids. You call them Pancho. But he wanted to be called Roberto, which is a formal name for Robert, Robert Flores. But then I realized that for me, he should've been Francisco, okay? Francisco instead of Pancho. But I'm sure he meant well.

Anyway, eighth grade came. The American Legion in town had a chapter, and they gave a award to the most outstanding student in the class. Now, some people thought I would get it. But I knew by then there was a certain amount of discrimination. Even though we were equal, or even better, scholastically, that wasn't all of it. So the night of the graduation--June 6, I think it was, 1935--we were all in the same class. Everybody was dressed up and making a lot of noise, because we were graduating. My homeroom teacher, Miss Ebling, called 00:14:00me out of the room. I heard in the background, "Oh, he's going to get the award, that's why. He's being primed for the award." Well, I sort of knew there's something different here. So she took me to the other room and gave me a fountain pen. She said, "The faculty got together, and we're giving you this award as the most outstanding student." I knew right away I'm not getting the 00:15:00award, see? So I was braced for it. There's nothing I can do. I wasn't angry, because the next in line was my buddy, Bob Stevenson, and he certainly deserved it anyway. By the way, Miss Ebling told me, "Please don't say anything to anybody about this award." Because see, it's a small community, and the teachers are afraid of losing their jobs, so they didn't want the word out that they gave me an award to circumvent the American Legion. For example, the American Legion had an interest in our swimming pool. Apparently, they had helped build the swimming pool. We Japanese, Mexicans were not allowed to go swimming, see? So these things, we knew.

For example, this other family in Madera, there was a Keith, and Keith joined the Boy Scouts. This is when we were, what, ten, twelve years old? He kept saying, "Hey, Frank, join the Scouts. We have a lot of fun." But he tried to get 00:16:00the merit badge for swimming. Remember, Madera gets hot. So one of the requirements for the Boy Scouts is to learn how to swim. But they wouldn't let him in the swimming pool, see?

DUNHAM: He was of Japanese descent?

INAMI: Oh, yeah. Yeah.

DUNHAM: But the Boy Scouts let him, but he couldn't do--

INAMI: Yeah, Boy Scouts let him in, but--the scoutmaster tried everything to try to get the American Legion to make a--. So I told Dad, "Hey, I want to join the Boy Scouts." Dad says, "If they're so biased that they won't let you in the swimming pool, you can stay home." So I stayed home. Well, I think quietly he figured I could work at home. Because on the farm, little kids can start working. So I think he--and I tried to join the Lone Scout. There's a thing 00:17:00called the Lone [Scout]. If you're away from the center of population, you could become a Lone Scout. So I applied for that. I read up on it. I was what, twelve years old? I applied for that and they wrote back and said, "You have a Scout [troop?] with a scoutmaster in Madera, so you can't be a Lone Scout." So I never did join the Scouts.

Now, getting back to graduation night, I congratulated Bob Stevenson for getting the award, and he tried to shove it to me. He says, "Hey, Frank, you deserve this. Here, take it." Of course, I refused it to take it. So those are the type of quiet discrimination that--not only from my parents, but when we got down to 00:18:00the citizens like me, born and raised here. I found out that this isn't endemic to just Madera.

Well, let me go to high school now. I graduated in 1935, and then high school, four years. Now there I tried to concentrate more on my studies, because I wanted to go to University of California. There was another Japanese American, Kaz Goto, G-O-T-O, who had gone to Cal. He was about four years ahead of me. He was at UC Berkeley. So I wanted to get my grades up so I could go. So I spent 00:19:00the four years mostly concentrating on my studies. Again, in that class, there were maybe three other Japanese Americans, so the rest of my friends were all non-Japanese. So they included me because my grades were way up there. I went on oratorical contests; I went on debating teams. From Madera, the teacher would drive us to San Francisco. If you know San Francisco, Lowell High is one of the top high schools, and we have to debate against them, oratorical contests against them. We never got anywhere, but it was very good experience.

DUNHAM: Do you remember some of the topics, any of the topics you debated?

INAMI: Oh, the topics were like, we should prepare for war. At that time--remember, it was 1939. In fact, getting back to 1931, 1931, when Dad took us to Japan, they were already talking about war with the US. In fact, I remember--see, I'm ten years old, but very impressive. I picked up the language with no problem. So one of the things they were talking about was war with the US. So one day, there was a group of older people talking, so I asked my uncle. Yeah, they were talking about possible war with the US. My uncle was sitting 00:21:00next to me, kind of behind the group. I said, "Uncle, if Japan and US fights a war, who's going to win?" He quietly looked around the room, and he says, "Of course, Japan's going to win." But see, that's even 1931. Now, that's when Japan started to invade China and Manchuria and so forth. So a lot of the topics had to do with mobilization, the draft, should we draft or not, this kind of topics.

DUNHAM: Did you choose which side to debate on, or were you randomly assigned and had to debate both sides?

INAMI: Well, we just took it by--yeah, either way. Because the idea of debating is to see both sides of the picture.DUNHAM: Right. So you could debate both.

INAMI: Right. But there was a topic that I really liked. Should students be given homework? Okay.

DUNHAM: Still being debated.

INAMI: Right. We were debating that. They gave me the positive side; in other words, students should not be given homework. I'd get up in front of 400 people. Of course, my poor opponent; everybody was against his topic, because he was all for. By the time they reversed this thing, I think we changed topics.

Let's see now. High school. As I mentioned, I concentrated on my studies. See, I 00:23:00found out that I could get straight A's, except for PE, physical education, because I'm kind of clumsy and not well-coordinated. I'd go out to track and not get anyplace. So my grades were straight A's, except for phys ed, I'd have a B or C. Now, my sister, as I mentioned, seventeen years later, she comes along. By the time she got to high school, she got straight A's plus phys ed. Of course, women, I don't think they're--see, to get an A, you had to get on the football team, you had to get on the track team. But for the women, I don't think they're that strict.

DUNHAM: Well, speaking of your siblings, did Madera change over the years? Their school experience, did it become any more diverse and any more tolerant? Or was 00:24:00it getting worse?

INAMI: Yeah, it was gradually getting a little more tolerant. Because as I recall, we were able to go--swimming was one of the classes, high school classes. So we could go swimming at the American Legion. They call it the American Legion swimming pool. So things got quite more tolerant.

DUNHAM: Do you know what maybe led to that change of being allowed? Was there any legal fight?

INAMI: No, I don't think there was any legal fight. Well, they think part of it was because my predecessors, like this Kaz Goto, was able to go to Cal. He was four years ahead of me. Now, the rumors are, and I never--well, it's true to a certain extent. They had this valedictorian, salutatorian. All the Japanese 00:25:00Americans, every year, would be the valedictorian or the salutatorian. So by the time I got there, they cut that out, so there was no salutatorian or valedictorian. Now, the rumors are they didn't want all the Japanese garnering the top spots. But the thing I got was the California Scholarship Federation, which was separate. It was administered through the high schools, but they took your high school grades. So I was able to get the--it was only $50, but that's a lot of money, those days, okay? To go to Cal, it cost $27.50 a semester. 00:26:00Twenty-seven dollars and fifty cents. So fifty dollars is a lot of money. So I got that award. Years later, I found out that my high school principal was against my getting that award. I'll elaborate on that a little later. But things kind of come out, so there's documentary proof.

DUNHAM: Well, we'll definitely be interested in that. Could you back up and tell us a little bit about your family background, your parents, grandparents, if you knew them?

INAMI: Oh, the grandparents were all in Japan. Uncles, aunts. Dad was the oldest of eight kids, I think, something like that, but they were all in Japan. So we 00:27:00used to envy the other kids. Well, most of the Japanese Americans or the Japanese, they were in the same situation I was; the grandparents were in Japan. Now, occasionally you'd find a family with grandparents. Among the non-Japanese, they were always talking about their grandpa, grandma coming for Christmas and all kinds of things, but we missed that part. The only really good part, I remember quite distinctly, was when Dad took us to Japan. My grandma was the only one left. Oh, my grandfather on my mother's side was still living, but he was very quiet, didn't say much.

DUNHAM: He was in the US?

INAMI: No, no, he wasn't. No, in Japan. They were all in Japan. My grandma in 00:28:00Japan used to tell me they used to have a game you'd play, like cops and robbers. She said, "When you play, you play the Chinese, because they were our enemy. And the Japanese, and you're Japanese army." She says, "Don't be just a private. Be the general and run the show." That's what she tried to drum into me. Be a leader; don't try to be just a follower.

DUNHAM: How did your mother and father meet?

INAMI: Oh, they're cousins. First cousins. See, in Japan at that time--and it still is--see, marriages are arranged. It's deteriorating quite a bit. By deteriorating, I mean there's a thing called love marriage, and there's--what's 00:29:00a good term--marriages made by others.

DUNHAM: Arranged?

INAMI: Arranged marriages, right. The arranged marriages. So apparently, they're eleven years apart, but two cousins, they had made an arrangement. Some of them even before they're born but usually when they're five, six years old. Like my mother says, she was told, "Your husband's going to be him. He's going to be your husband." So there's no love connection, is what she used to tell me. It's either first cousins or else they're arranged. In other words, you go to a 00:30:00marriage broker and you say, "I have a son here that needs a wife." He makes all the arrangements. They meet. They meet once for lunch, maybe, or dinner, and then you've got to make up your mind. Do you want to marry her or not?

DUNHAM: Did they develop a love connection over time, would you say? They started as from an arranged marriage, but as--?

INAMI: Oh, yeah. Yeah, well, that's the theory. That's the theory behind there, that love will come later, see? Divorce is unthinkable, see? So among my siblings, a couple of them were sort of arranged, and some of them were love 00:31:00marriages, you might say.

FUKUMOTO: Did your parents move to California together, then?

INAMI: Yeah. In fact, see, Dad was here first, and he made enough money. He's quite frugal. So he went to Japan, I think, in 1920, right after World War I. He had saved enough money. Then he went to Japan, back to Japan. Had made enough money, built a house for his mother and married my mother, who was about twenty-three at the time, I think, and Dad was eleven years older. Then they came back. Well, he came back first, so he could settle down here, and then he 00:32:00had her come right away.

FUKUMOTO: How did he get to Madera? How did they choose Madera?

INAMI: Oh, Dad was farming all over the place. He started out in Imperial Valley, went in Bakersfield, all the way up and down the--. And Fresno, Kingsburg, Hanford, all these little places. He would say that all he'd do is just get his blanket and go from farm to farm, working, with just a bicycle and a blanket over his shoulder. It was a little more than that, but that's what he would tell us. So as I mentioned, seventeen years later--or much later; yeah, seventeen years later--my youngest sister graduated high school, and she 00:33:00graduates at the top of the class.

DUNHAM: Did you and all of your siblings work on the farm?

INAMI: Oh, yeah, everybody. Everybody worked.

DUNHAM: You worked before or after school, or both?

INAMI: Oh, yeah, after school. After school we would come home, change our clothes, and go out and pick strawberries or tomatoes. It's child labor. Today, they would be known as child labor; but that's the only way you could make a living.

DUNHAM: Did you work all day in those hot summers?

INAMI: Oh, yeah. Summers, we only got one or two days for vacation. Dad would take us up to Bass Lake or up at the hills. But that's about all that we got. 00:34:00But see, that's why I wanted to join the Boy Scouts, because at least I wouldn't have to work on the farm, see? But it never worked out quite that way. See, they drummed into us the Japanese system of succession. The oldest son has to look after his parents, look after the siblings. That's his job, his destiny in life. So they drummed that into me, that even if you graduate college and have a job, your job is to come back to the family and run whatever the--. In this case, by 00:35:00the time I started college in 1939, he [Dad] said, "Farming is too hard, too hard work." So he started a little grocery store in Madera, just across the freeway. It's not a freeway; it was 99, just a two-lane road. But he started that because, he says, "Number one, you can eat on wholesale." See, with seven--well, nine altogether--to feed, you can eat wholesale. You can save some money that way. And the kids can work in the store. Even my little sister, six years old, she would play in the store. Play with herself and act as a kind of 00:36:00a--because even those days, just pickpockets, there're people that'll--but just the fact that she's roaming around the store would discourage any pickpockets or--

DUNHAM: She was security.

INAMI: Security, right. Everybody again. Plus the fact, he says, "You're prevented from the rain and bad weather." Even in bad weather, you've got to work on the farm. You work in the shed. But in the grocery store, you've got a nice warm place to work.

FUKUMOTO: Were you ever resentful, having all that pressure? Or did you just accept it?

INAMI: Oh, yeah. I wasn't that resentful, because I knew, or I had determined, that I wasn't going to go by the rules. A couple of events happened. Number one 00:37:00was the evacuation. When they moved us out, that kind of broke up the family. Although everybody stayed together, except me. I went to Chicago, to finish my education. See, I started in Berkeley in 1939. Two and a half years later, I have to leave, go back to Madera; and within a month Madera gets evacuated. So we went to the Fresno Assembly Center and eventually to Arkansas. There're two camps in Arkansas, Rohwer and Jerome. That's where we ended up. So this was a 00:38:00chance for me to get away from the family rule that I'm supposed to take care of the--and I had all this stuff in mind already, see?

DUNHAM: You hadn't voiced your plans before?

INAMI: No, I didn't, because for example, I went to Illinois--well, let me backtrack. It's easier to backtrack here. Because when I started at UC Berkeley in 1939, I stayed at the Japanese Students Club, because the fraternities and the sororities would not allow us in. So we couldn't stay [in the] fraternities. Now, there was a student co-op, but it was difficult to get in at that time, 00:39:00because it was very popular. But there was a Japanese Students Club, a special dormitory just for us. In fact, by the way, we used to call ourselves Jappa Sappa Chi. Remember? JSC. Japanese Students Club. We wanted to make it sound like one of the fraternities. However, half the guys objected to that Jappa Sappa Chi, so it never--see, the City of Berkeley wanted to document that and put up a plaque. The student club is still there; it's Euclid Hall. So they wanted to put up a plaque, but there was no documentation, so I think they dropped it. Anyway. So the Japanese Students Club, 1777 Euclid, just two blocks from the campus. The ideal place. There were about twenty-five of us, I guess, 00:40:00Japanese Americans. Like the fraternities, it was by invitation only. Fortunately, as I mentioned, this fellow from Madera had stayed there, so he vouched for me and I was able to get in. See, you have to have somebody vouch for you, unless there's an opening. See, if there isn't anybody, they'll let somebody in to keep it.

DUNHAM: Was there any type of initiation process or ritual?

INAMI: Oh, yeah, there was all kinds of initiation.

DUNHAM: Are you allowed to speak of that?

INAMI: Well, the initiation was just--like for example, I started to mention, there's a women's club, for social purposes. Obviously, we can't date white women; we can't date others, other than Japanese. Well, the Chinese weren't that 00:41:00friendly to us, the Japanese. So down the street, block and a half away, was the Japanese Women's Student Club, see? So you wanted a date or something, they had the same situation. I think there were only about ten or twelve girls there. They tried to pick the better-looking girls there; at least we thought they did.

DUNHAM: Well, what was the dating scene like?

INAMI: Well, we had dances together and all kinds of [things]. Not only that, we included the rest of--see, there were about 500 Japanese Americans on campus, at that time. That's including all four grades, plus graduate students. So maybe 00:42:00every month, there was something going on. In fact, I just--what'd I do with that? For example, just the class alone. See, class of '43 election dinner. We'd meet once every semester and we would meet for dinner just before finals. Then on the back--oh, you've got it.

DUNHAM: I just wanted to hold it for a second.

INAMI: Oh, and then flip. Then people would sign the--

DUNHAM: So if there were as many as 500 Japanese Americans at the University, and a very small percentage of you were in the club, in this dormitory, where 00:43:00else did the Japanese live, since there were--?

INAMI: Oh, there were all kinds of boarding houses. A lot of the students--I'd say maybe a hundred, at least--commuted from San Francisco, commuted from Berkeley, from Oakland, see? They contributed to this group. You had a very, you might say, diverse, within the--in other words, anywhere from freshmen up to seniors, grad students. So you had the whole gamut. For example, there's a typical example of Terry Takahashi. He was from San Francisco. Now, he had a girlfriend. Well, he picked the prettiest girl at the women's club, Taka Chono, from Corcoran. Corcoran is a little town south of Hanford. North of Hanford is 00:44:00Fresno. She's very attractive, and they were running around together. We men in the student club were told, "She's off limits for you guys," okay? It's a typical example. I think she was a sophomore and he was a senior. So there were quite a few. In fact, I've often wanted to make a book or a study of the campus romances. See, there were quite a few. Now, that couple never made it through. There were all kinds of differences, I guess. But there were other couples who married each other, in the group, and successfully.DUNHAM: Now, going back, had 00:45:00you dated in high school?

INAMI: No, because dating whites are out of the picture. Plus the other Japanese never lived in town, close by. See, they lived out in the country, about ten miles away.

FUKUMOTO: What would happen to you if you tried to date someone out of your--?

INAMI: See, for example, there's a gal named--well, anyway, I noticed quite a difference. See, I was quite popular, as I mentioned. I was quite popular in seventh and eighth grades. All of a sudden when I went to high school, some of them wouldn't even say hello to me, see? I kept thinking, now, what did I do to 00:46:00make them antagonistic toward me? I think that part of the reason is they didn't want me trying to date them. See, by the time you get to high school--even grammar school, there's a little bit--there was dating going on. Especially good-looking freshmen, the seniors are already looking the crop over. Now, that's just a personal feeling I got. Because years later, I looked up some of these gals. After. Like Catherine Curtis, for example. She used to sit behind me, and we used to chat and so forth. When I got to high school, she was quite 00:47:00cold. So years later she married a guy named George Tolladay. He was lost over in Burma, and then she married another guy, D'Amicis, I guess. They were Catholic, so they were living apart. But anyway, he died. So I started to look her up. She was in Aptos. She was living by herself. We'd go out to lunch and so forth. In fact, we used to have a lot of talks about the good old days.

DUNHAM: Did you ask her about her coldness in high school?

INAMI: No, I never have. I didn't want to embarrass her. That's kind of off limits. But see, in the meantime, I had--well, let me bring that up just a 00:48:00little later, because I'm getting to the college level.

DUNHAM: Let me just ask again about the high school and back in Madera. Was it something you ever discussed with your parents or your siblings, the question of sort of dating and lack of opportunity then?

INAMI: No. There were two things. My mother always told me that interracial marriages will not work; it'll cause a lot of problems. Racial differences. Now, Dad was a little more specific. He would say, "You marry a white girl and everything will be fine, until you lose your money. Soon as you lose money, off 00:49:00she goes. Or if you get sick, she'll never take care of you," see? He drummed that into us. Well, into all three of us boys. He would pick an opportunity and say that over and over again, see? I think part of the reason was, after the war things changed quite a bit. So he was afraid that one of us could marry outside the race. Chinese, Japanese, okay. But outside the race, my parents kind of, when I was even in high school--yeah, yeah. So getting back to college, 00:50:00fortunately, there was a fellow I met in college, at UC Berkeley, Ben {Nagata?}. He was Japanese American, from LA. Soon as the rumors of evacuation showed up, his whole family went back to Chicago. It turns out that they had lived in Chicago before, and they had moved to LA within the last ten years, maybe. So as soon as the rumor of evacuation began, they moved. He was a mechanical 00:51:00engineering major, I was an electrical engineering major, so we had a lot of courses together. So as soon as he moved to Chicago, he went to Illinois Tech, and he was already on his way.

Whereas here I lost almost a year, because here we are in Arkansas. I'm trying to get out, educational leave, so I can get to Chicago. Well, they had two things we had to do. One was there was a student relocation committee. It still exists today. Student relocation committee, by Robert Gordon Sproul, who was head of UC at that time. So he realized what our plight was, so he arranged so 00:52:00that we could continue in some other school, away from California, and Oregon and Washington state. So we had to get a clearance from the student relocation committee. Number two, we had to get a clearance from the high school principal. Okay?

Now, that's where my high school principal comes in. This group, the student relocation committee, had written to my high school principal for a reference, to see if I'm not only a good student, but a good risk to go out from Cal. Okay? He wrote a very unflattering letter, saying, "I don't know about those guys. I 00:53:00don't know what you guys are trying to do." He's talking about the relocation committee. "But you're going to regret it one of these days." How did I find out? There was a gal named Ann Hayashi. Ann Hayashi, she's half and half. Her mother is German, her father is Japanese. Her father was at UC Berkeley with us, and he evacuated, and he went to med school at Temple University, in Philadelphia. So he had married this German woman, and they had five children, I think. One of them is Ann Hayashi. She wrote a dissertation for her PhD, talking about two subjects. One is the history of the Hayashi family, and the other is 00:54:00this student relocation, how we had to--. She went through all the files, and used the letter that I'm a subject of, to the principal of Madera High, and she put that in her dissertation. I was able to get a copy of that dissertation and I read the letter. Except it said, "Mr. Williams, principal, Madera High." I thought, "Gee, we never had a Williams there. Something's strange here." So I wrote to Ann Hayashi. She was in Maui. I think she teaches school. She's teaching school there in Maui. She's half and half, so I think she married another white person. So I wrote to her and I said, "Our principal was L.C. 00:55:00Thompson. I remember him distinctly. But your letter says Madera High, but Mr. Williams." "Oh," she says, "on advice of attorney, we changed the names." See, their attorney, because these dissertations get broadcast quite widely.

DUNHAM: Do you know how she got a copy of the letter?

INAMI: Oh, yeah, the student relocation had copies. I'm trying to get the original record. Ann says, go see so-and-so in Oakland, but I could never find that. I told Ann, "Next time you come to the States, I'd like to meet you." But she never did. She never did follow through.

DUNHAM: Had you had idea in high school of L.C. Thompson's, the principal's, hostility?

INAMI: I should've. Yeah, I think I should've, because I notice that he was never supportive of me, like my homeroom teachers. See, my homeroom teachers were always, like Miss--I've forgotten her name. Anyway, she says, "Frank, you've got to go to college." And she'd do everything she can. She says, "The ideal place for you to go is Caltech, California Institution of Technology. That's the top engineering school." Better than Cal, see? But she says, "Unfortunately, it's a private school, so you're going to need more money. But if you decide to go to Cal, be sure to let me know. I'll write all the 00:57:00necessary--." Because going to Cal, those days, all you had to do was pass an exam. They'd tell you how to write the essay. The whole thing centered on how well you wrote that. The thing was, write short, concise sentences. Don't ramble. So I did just like they said and I had no trouble getting in.

DUNHAM: Do you remember the topic of your essay?

INAMI: I don't even remember what the topic was.

FUKUMOTO: Did you have other teachers who supported you?

INAMI: Right. For example--I don't remember her name anyway. We were in class and that teacher, for some reason, had gone to Southern California--a weekend trip or something--and got delayed. So there was Elsie--I've forgotten. Anyway, 00:58:00there was a gal in our high school class, and no teacher. So she came up to me, Elsie Watt came up to me and said, "Frank, why don't you take over the class?" Because she was with me in grammar school; she knew I could handle the class, see? So I said, "How do you know our teacher isn't coming?" She said, "Well, just in case. As soon as she comes, she can take over." So there was a guy named Paul Wilson. He was always against me. For example, even in the fourth grade, he said something like--what'd he do; oh--we were playing king and queen or something like that, and I was the king. Of course, it has to be a white girl 00:59:00that was queen. This Paul Wilson objected. Remember, this is fifth grade. He says, "Frank can't marry a white; whites can't marry Japanese." See? Things like that. In this high school class, he said the same thing. "Oh," he says, "I don't want Frank." He almost said, "I don't want a minority," or something like that, some crack. You should see. The whole class, especially the girls in the class, really jumped on him. I thought, "Gee, I guess I'm still popular, only thanks to the women."

So I ran the class. The teacher, next week or the next session, came and she thanked me for running the class. And there were others. There's a Patsy Barnes. 01:00:00Her father was a Cal graduate. So on a cold day, he drove to our farm, which is right on the edge of town, and wanted to make sure I had applied. He said, "If you need to apply or if you need references I'm a Cal grad," he says. So there were people that were supportive of me.

Getting back to Chicago--

DUNHAM: Hang on. I need to change the tape.

INAMI: Change the tape, sure.

Audio file 2

DUNHAM: This is tape two, on November 9, 2013, with Frank Inami. This is David Dunham and Candice Fukumoto-Dunham for the Regional Oral History Office, and 01:01:00we'll just resume. I wanted to ask, backing up, another question about Madera growing up, that I'd read in another interview, where you talked about religion and some religious conflict. I was curious if you could talk about your religious background, and maybe speak to what that conflict may have been.

INAMI: Okay. Let's see. They say only 2 percent of the Japanese in Japan are Christians, and the rest are basically Buddhist. So both my parents are Buddhist, so I was raised as a Buddhist. Let's see, there was a small community building in Madera, out in the country, where most of the Japanese, maybe ten, fifteen families, they used to have a Buddhist service there, maybe once every 01:02:00few months, something like that. But the funerals, weddings were in Fresno, twenty miles away. So I remember--I was only four years old, I think--but I still remember. I'm the oldest; next is my sister. And there was another sister who was born when I was either four or five, and she died all of a sudden when she was a few months old of suffocation. She suffocated because in those days the parents all went out and worked in the fields. So I still remember the doctor coming and looking at [the baby] and shaking his head, saying, "She's gone." I still remember the funeral, the funeral being held in Fresno. A 01:03:00Buddhist funeral, with all the trimmings, you might say, of the funeral, and Dad trying to explain to me what the various things are for.

So I was raised as a Buddhist. Whenever they'd have these periodic Buddhist sessions in Madera, I would drive out there and take some of my siblings along. So basically, I was raised as a Buddhist. When I went to UC Berkeley, I became--. Well, number one, if you live in California, if you live in the state, 01:04:00it's basically a Christian state. If you're a Buddhist, especially at UC Berkeley--there was a Buddhist church in Berkeley, but the Christian churches seemed to dominate. At least the Japanese Americans from the Christian group would come and take us to the Christian services, for example. For Easter, especially. My two roommates I had were from LA area. One was Soichi Fukui, of the Fukui Mortuary in L.A. So they were strong Christians, and my friend Carl Oike, from Boyle Heights, which is basically close to downtown LA. So I would 01:05:00tag along with them, because it was off a little ways, and the Berkeley people would come with their cars--their dad's car or mother's car--and take us to [church]. Especially on Easter. They'd give us an Easter bunny, chocolate Easter bunny. We'd refuse it, but they'd force us to take it. That's the extent of our Christian influence.

DUNHAM: So there wasn't a conflict back in Madera.

INAMI: No, not as far as--but this Paul Watanabe you mentioned, from U of Mass. See, I just got through mentioning the student relocation council, how that 01:06:00letter had counted against me. Okay. While we were in camp, in Jerome Relocation Center, there was another guy named Ben Jinkawa. He's from Fresno. He came to me one day and he said, "Frank, what'd you put down for your religion?" I said, "I put down Buddhist." I said, "What'd you put down?" "I put down Buddhist. Did you notice all the Christians are getting clearances to go out, and you and I, we put down Buddhist, and we still haven't got our clearance?" I thought, "Oh, okay." I mentioned this to Paul Watanabe, and he referred me to a book. A book 01:07:00that mentions the biases. In it, if you put down Buddhist, it counted against you. If you got a negative report from the high school, it counted against you. See, that's why my friend in Chicago said I could've gotten out in October, November. I didn't get out till March. Ben kept telling me, "Hey, the semester starts in January. Hurry up and get out. Sneak out some way, if you can." [laughs]

DUNHAM: Well, you mentioned President Sproul and folks at UC Berkeley. Were there any students who were able to transfer before relocation, before having to go to camp, that you know of?

INAMI: Talk to Ted Ono. I think he was somehow able to transfer. Yeah, because 01:08:00he went before his parents were evacuated from Fresno. He ended up at Wash U, Washington University. That's where George Matsumoto ended up. They must've had some prior--let's see, they're both--well, I'm not sure about George, but Ted definitely is Christian.

DUNHAM: And then also, speaking of religion, were the Quakers, the American Friends Service Committee, were they involved at all?

INAMI: Oh, definitely, very strongly. Yeah, very strongly. They had canvased all the schools, will they take you or not. For example, University of Chicago has a good engineering program, is widely accepted as some of the better schools. They 01:09:00wouldn't take us because [Enrico] Fermi was working on the [Chicago] Pile. See, Fermi was one of the nuclear scientists. He proved that the nuclear bomb would work, see? They were working right underneath the atheletic stands. That's why they wouldn't take us. There were other places.

DUNHAM: So how were you getting that information? Were you meeting with anyone from that group, or how did you get the information about which universities to apply to?

INAMI: Oh, yeah, that was by phone sometimes, but mostly by letter. There was Trudy King, who was in charge of this, and she would always send us letters. But the interesting thing is, I got accepted to Swarthmore, Swarthmore College in 01:10:00Philadelphia, I think. I got accepted to that college, but their engineering program, they just have general engineering, they didn't have electrical engineering; whereas Illinois Tech had a definite electrical engineering program, see? So I kept turning them down. I got a strong letter from the President of that Swarthmore. It's a Quaker-run school. So I found out later, somebody told me, not Paul Watanabe but some of his friends told me, "Did you know that the President of Swarthmore, at that time, was on that committee that determined who went to which schools? They wanted you to go to Swarthmore 01:11:00because of the war, because it depleted a lot of the men from the schools. We had money. At Cal, it's, what, $27.50; at Illinois Tech, it was $300 a semester, see?

DUNHAM: So your family had to come up with that money.

INAMI: Oh, yeah. Fortunately, Dad was quite frugal. He said, "Don't worry. We can come up with the money."

DUNHAM: Was Swarthmore comparable, about $300 a semester? Or do you know?

INAMI: Well, I think the school said, "We're willing to give you a scholarship to pay for at least the first year," or something like that. But I kept turning 01:12:00Swarthmore down. The schools, as I mentioned, needed the students. Especially male students, because not all the males, but a lot of the males were off in the war. Somehow, when I went to Illinois Tech--see, I was finally able to get there in March. Let's see, I'm trying to figure out--.

DUNHAM: I wanted to back up a little bit, if you don't mind. Just chronologically, I wanted to go back. Talk about Berkeley a little more. When you first came to Berkeley from Madera, what was that like? I know you talked a little about the church, but what else about the campus and/or the city, coming from small-town Madera?

INAMI: Oh, yes, it was a small-town high school. The competition was rough. We really had to catch up. For example, Lowell, Lowell High. I was taking calculus, 01:13:00differential calculus. Anyway, these guys from Lowell, they're getting good grades, and they were not even studying. And their homework; they get their homework done in no time. I said, "Hey, you guys, how come you guys don't do any studying?" "Oh, we had the same book, the same thing at Lowell." At Madera High, heck, they never heard of calculus. That's the difference. Now, when we got into sophomore and junior classes, the field was more level.

DUNHAM: You'd caught up?

INAMI: But still, those guys are pretty sharp, see? So that's the difference we noticed. The other difference was, of course, the sheer numbers. How much? Eight 01:14:00thousand people, 8,000 students at that time, I think, something like that; Madera High, with about four or five hundred. It was quite a difference. And the fact that you're not working at home. Although a lot of the Japanese American students, at least--and I'm sure the other students, too--they had to rush home after class to help their parents. Chiz. I guess you've talked to Chizu Iiyama?

DUNHAM: Yes.

INAMI: They had Chiz Kitano's store there. And there was a hotel, Kitano Hotel.

DUNHAM: Did you have to work while you were at Berkeley?

INAMI: We had to set the tables, we had to help with the cooking. We had one 01:15:00cook there. So we took turns. Then we had to do the yard work. That's part of our--. So as I recall, it was like a dollar day we got, $30 a month.

DUNHAM: So where did that funding come from?

INAMI: Oh, the funding came from our $30 a day that we paid. And all of a sudden they said, "Gee, there's no endowment. There's no money to pay for the future." So all of a sudden there was a group to save some money. Of course, evacuation came along and took care of that.

DUNHAM: What was the Japanese Student Club like inside? What was your--?

INAMI: Well, it was the first time I roomed with so many Japanese Americans. Especially in the frosh--we had what they call a frosh porch. There were five of us, six of us. We're all in one big room, so we got to know each other quite well, during the freshman year. After the freshman year, we graduated to two-man rooms. Let's see. Willie Nakatani was from a farm, so we compared notes. Now, Soichi Fukui, of Fukui Mortuary, Carl Oike, Willie Fujioka, all from the city 01:17:00folks, you might say.

FUKUMOTO: So were you excited to have friends who were of a similar background?

INAMI: Oh, yeah. Yeah. Some became life-long friends, especially Soichi Fukui, Fukui Mortuary. He taught me all about the mortuary business, for two and a half years. So when my wife died ten years ago, all of a sudden, twenty minutes, she's brain dead. So I knew exactly what to do. I went to the mortuary, I said, "Look, I want to put her in a cardboard box and cremate her. And we're going to have the service in Fresno." I let them make an estimate. They said, "Well, we'll fix her up nicely, we'll do this and that. You can have the service here, 01:18:00and cremation, $6,000." So I said, "No. All I want is put her in a cardboard box, $45. Cremate her, $300." I don't know, it came to $1600, I think. But thanks to my roommate, who I roomed [with] for three and a half years--. In fact, he promised to take care of me if I died first. Unfortunately, I'm still living, and he died thirty years ago.

DUNHAM: Now, when you came to Cal, you also joined ROTC [Reserve Officers Training Corps], right?

INAMI: Oh, ROTC, yeah.

DUNHAM: Yeah. Can you tell us about it? Was that a voluntary thing?

INAMI: Right. Yeah, it was compulsory. All men had to join it; women were 01:19:00exempt. In fact, I don't think they even had women's groups. But if you were physically able, you had to join. I noticed one guy, I was in the clinic, and he says, "I'm going to tell them I've got a bum knee." He says he wants to get out of ROTC. But see, in grammar school, there was a guy named William Baker. He says, "Hey, Frank, let's go to West Point." So I said, "Sure, I'll go to West Point with you." This is sixth grade, seventh grade; we didn't know. I didn't know at the time. But the requirements were five-five, five foot, five inches, and I was only five-four, five-three. Bill says, "Hey, we've got to stretch you 01:20:00a little bit, so you can come with us." Well, I knew there were a certain amount of biases at that time, because ROTC, you take two years of ROTC, compulsory; two years are voluntary. You sign up for two years, and when you graduate, you can get a commission, second lieutenant. So I was gung-ho at the time. Out of the hundreds of Japanese Americans, there was only about three or four of us who volunteered for the two years. Now, I was in Signal Corps. The others were in other groups, so I don't know what other groups did. But Signal Corps, I was interviewed by Major Larabee. He asked me one question. "Where was your mother 01:21:00born?" I said, "Japan." He shook his head, said, "We can't take you." See, this is 1941. So that ended my military career.

DUNHAM: Your first effort.

INAMI: Yeah, first step in military career.

DUNHAM: Well, what was the ROTC program like then?

INAMI: Oh, we wore a suit, a uniform. We used to call it the monkey suit. Twice a week, we'd have formation. Well, the Army types had a lot of marching to do and so forth; but fortunately, in Signal Corps, there we'd go out in the field with radio equipment, and we learned how to use the equipment and things like 01:22:00that. Theory-wise, it paralleled a lot of our coursework at the school, so I was all for it. But unfortunately, it cut it short. Now, I'm a B student; my grades are around B. See, I'm [an] A student at Madera High; but when I went to Cal, competition's too rough, so I'm a B student. Well, there was a guy named Sammy Yanagisawa, another Japanese American. Straight-A student, and he got along well with everybody--with me, with the white students--because he's from Berkeley, Berkeley High. He applied; he was turned down, too. In fact, he was kind of my role model, because he was quite well liked by the faculty. I said, "Sammy, are 01:23:00you going to apply for upper division?" "Sure," he said, "I'm going to apply." "You think you'll get accepted?" "Sure, I'll get accepted." Very confident. But then I asked him later, when I got rejected. He was a year ahead of me. I sort of knew that he was rejected, too. I said, "Sammy, did you get accepted?" He says, "No." See?

So it wasn't based on grades; it was strictly ancestry. So that ended my career, until--well, not only that, we had to sign up for the draft. One-A means you're ready for the draft to be inducted immediately. There's a classification called 01:24:004-C. See, 4-F means you're physically unqualified; but 4-C means you're an enemy alien. So we're classed as 4-C, enemy alien, unfit for military service. That's what they classified us. That put another roadblock in my career for the military.

DUNHAM: So how did you feel about that and about the rejection of going for the two-year--?

INAMI: Well, when I got to Arkansas, in Rohwer, they were recruiting people for the MIS, Military Intelligence Service, Japanese language. Also for the 442, the 01:25:00infantry unit. I applied for both of them. I applied first for the 442. They said, "How bad are your eyes?" I said, "20/200." They says, "You're going to flunk the physical." He says, "You have an alternative, something else to do?" I said, "Yeah, I'm planning to get out and finish my education." He says, "I strongly encourage you to do that, because in the infantry, you're going to do a lot of marching, and it's going to be physically impossible for you." See, I've got flat feet. For flat feet, you could get rejected, those days. Not anymore.

So I applied for military intelligence. Same thing. Because they were sending us out to the Pacific, in the jungles and so forth. So that kind of put another damper on my military career. I figured I'm going to give it up and put my effort into getting to Illinois Tech. Because Ben kept writing to me and says, "Hey, you've got some money." He says, "I'll lend you the money. I'll get you a place to stay. I'll get you accepted." He already had me accepted in the--. He's quite a politician; he knows what the right--. So when I finally got accepted to Illinois Tech, I was finally able to get out in March; but unfortunately, the 01:27:00semester had already started. And by the time I got there, it was too late [in] the semester. They said, you better wait till June. So I found a job, menial job, doing the same thing over and over again, fifty cents an hour. Because they were finding jobs for people coming out from camp. So I was finally able to finish up. Again, quite a difference. Here I was living right in the middle of Chicago. The school is an hour by streetcar away, right in the middle of housing. Not like UC Berkeley, with trees and campuses. Plus there's a stockyard 01:28:00right next to the school. During the summertime, you smell the stockyard. We'd go to class right through school. So it was quite an experience going to Illinois Tech, but [I] finally made it.

Oh, I wanted to include--during the freshman year, or at the beginning of the freshman year, at UC Berkeley, you go through orientation. So I went through this orientation. You get a chance to meet with the--let's see. Well, she's the 01:29:00one that finds jobs for you. Placement officer. Miss Christie. Miss Christie finds jobs for you when you graduate. But this is when I'm a freshman, see? She's looking on my list and she says, "I see you want to become an engineer? Why do you want to become an engineer?" I said, "I want to become an engineer." I didn't know what to answer. I said, "Why do you ask?" She says, "Because there're only two companies that hire engineers, GE and Westinghouse. And they bluntly tell us, we don't even want to interview Japanese or Chinese. So when you get out, there's going to be no jobs for you." Says, "I see your dad runs a mom-and-pop grocery store. Why don't you change your major to business, and go 01:30:00home and run your dad's mom-and-pop small grocery store?"

Now, I want to jump thirteen years ahead now, because I want to give the prelude to this story. So thirteen years later, I get out of the Korean War. I'm back on reserve, and I'm courting my wife, who, after three tries, finally says she'll marry me. She's living in San Francisco. I met her at that camp in Jerome. I had to ask her three times. She finally said she'll marry me. I said, "Where do you want to live?" "Well, Bay Area's okay." So I went back to Miss Christie. She's 01:31:00still there at UC Berkeley. I said, "Miss Christie, I'm not trying to vindictive or make you feel bad, but thirteen years ago, you told me not to go into engineering. I did not take your advice. I got a degree in double E [electrical engineering] from Illinois Tech, and I need a job." She says, "Oh, they're hiring up on the hill." The hill is Lawrence Berkeley Lab. Says, "They're hiring up on the hill. I'll call up and you go ahead and interview."

So I drive up to the hill, only a few minutes, and I'm waiting. A guy comes walking in--fortunately, not recognizing him right away--Dick Mack. He says, "Hey, Frank, what the heck you doing here?" So I explained, "I'm looking for a job." He says, "We're hiring for Livermore." "Where's Livermore?" "It's right 01:32:00out there off of Highway 50." So he says, "We're starting a new lab there." See, they started the lab in July of '52, and here it was October of '52, so they're just starting. We chitchatted, and he didn't ask me for my transcript or anything. I thought, that's strange; maybe he's going to reject me. So he says, "Come on along." So he took me into the placement office, he says, "Hire this guy." Just like that, see? So I got hired for Livermore. That was in '52. I got married in '53. The marriage lasted fifty years, until she died all of a sudden. 01:33:00I worked at the lab for thirty-some years. Thirty-five years, I guess.

DUNHAM: Well, back when you had that initial counselling session with Miss Christie, how did you have the confidence to continue in engineering?

INAMI: Somebody else asked me that question, and I don't know why. See, there were other examples of other Japanese Americans who had majored in engineering and were working in a fruit stand or something like that, see? So there were other examples. Except there was one example just before the war started. This guy named Higuchi, he thought he had a job with the government, the National 01:34:00Space Administration; it wasn't called space at that time, but--. But this is before the war started, see? I never could figure out what he finally ended up, but there's a glimmer of hope there. But see, somehow--I'm an optimist, in a certain degree. I'm always looking at the brighter side of things--even though the guys at the students club says, they're going to line us up with machine guns and shoot us all down. There were all kinds of rumors floating away. We're going to be second class citizens; we're never going to get full citizenship.

DUNHAM: This is before or after Pearl Harbor?

INAMI: After Pearl Harbor

DUNHAM: Before Pearl Harbor--you mentioned the one student who was above you, who thought he was definitely going to get the two-year appointment, how he had a real good rapport with white students and professors. How about for the rest of you? How as getting along? And were there instances of other direct or indirect racism that you felt at Cal?

INAMI: I'm not sure what the--there was a guy named Roy Mita. He kept insisting on applying for upper division ROTC. So they finally let him apply, but they wouldn't give him a commission, see? So he ended up on 442. He was wounded, and I think he gave up. Yeah, he became a lawyer. He got a law degree. He's buried 01:36:00over there in Minneapolis.

DUNHAM: But not just on campus, with the white students and professors. And the ROTC group was mixed, I assume.

INAMI: Right.

DUNHAM: What was the day-to-day like with that? Were there any challenges there?

INAMI: No, we were accepted as double E students. I remember quite a few, including Dick Mack, that was my benefactor. Just by pure coincidence. I remember he was in ROTC with me. And there were a few other guys that I got treated--in fact, there was a guy who was in upper division ROTC. He was shorter 01:37:00than I am, and he was able to get--. So I figured they can't reject me on account of--he was a white guy. I was pretty sure they won't reject me on [my height]. He was one of the trainees. When he came by, he was shorter than I am, so I figured they can't reject me on account of [my height]. But race, there's nothing I could do, see?

DUNHAM: You said double E student?

INAMI: Yeah, electrical engineering.

DUNHAM: Oh, right.

FUKUMOTO: So when Pearl Harbor happened, what's your memory of that? Where were you? What were you doing? How'd you hear of it? What was your reaction, when the Japanese bombed Pearl Harbor? What's your memory?

INAMI: What was the original?

FUKUMOTO: Just where were you, what were you doing? How did you get that information about Japan bombing Pearl Harbor?

INAMI: Oh, I was at the students club. By that time, I had gone up to assistant house manager. See, there was a house manager, who managed the group, and I was the assistant house manager. The job of the assistant house manager was if the light blew you, you'd change the lights, this kind of thing. Once a week from the laundry I would get the sheets and I would pass out the sheets. That Sunday--it was Sunday morning--I was passing out sheets to the various rooms. Somebody said, "Hey, they bombed Pearl Harbor. The Japanese bombed Pearl 01:39:00Harbor." Somebody said, "No, that's not Pearl Harbor, that's Dutch Harbor." Dutch Harbor's up in the Aleutians. There was some argument, and I kind of brushed it off. That morning, there was a mother of one of the students coming up from Madera to see her son, who was--see, this Louie Kobayashi, who was a year behind me, they'd diagnosed him as cancer of the rectum or something like 01:40:00that, and she was coming up with a friend. They drove up. This friend drove the mother up to visit Louie. They came up the walkway and they had no radio in the car, so they didn't know that Pearl Harbor had been bombed. So I was so busy that day, taking them to the clinic and seeing Louie at the hospital and things like that. You're talking about the exact day of that date, right?

FUKUMOTO: Yeah.

DUNHAM: So when did it begin to sink in, what had happened? You talked about the reaction of your roommates in the Japanese club. The next few days and weeks, 01:41:00what transpired? And for your family back in Madera, what was happening with them?

INAMI: Yeah. Let's see. Number one, by that night--this is December 7--by that night, the FBI had fanned out and picked up anybody of the Issei, the first generation, who were obviously not citizens. They were head of various churches, head of Japanese schools--there were Japanese schools--or trading companies. Obviously, the consulate and so forth. The FBI had picked them all up. Then days later, another group came by and picked up some more.

So see, right after Pearl Harbor, there was finals. You took the finals and went home, and you didn't come back until first of the year. So we didn't get a chance to see each other until first of the year. So there was kind of a status symbol. Guys would say, "Hey, your dad get picked up?" Says, "No." "Oh, I guess he's not a big shot, like my dad. He got picked up right away." See, there was a status symbol that ended up. Then there was a curfew. We couldn't go past eight o'clock. After eight o'clock, you had to be inside. This put a cramp on the 01:43:00people from San Francisco, because they had to be home by eight o'clock.

Now, one guy named George, he insisted--it was almost eight o'clock. I said, "Hey, George, where you going?" He said, "I'm going back to San Francisco." "Oh, no, no. Eight o'clock. There's a curfew on." "Oh," he says, "I'll just pass as Chinese or something." Said, "No, George." I told him, "You sleep on the couch. I'll get a blanket for you." So my roommate, the mortician's son, Soichi [and I], we were sound asleep. Knock on the door. This soldier comes in with a rifle, bayonet fixed. He had George with him. He says, "Do you know this guy?" We told 01:44:00him, "Sure, we know him. That's George Kobayashi." See, he got picked up. Apparently, he got a talking to because this soldier says, "Now, George, you remember what I told you." He really read him the riot act, I guess.

DUNHAM: Well, at a certain point, students from San Francisco weren't allowed to cross at all, I had thought. Or was it just by curfew?

INAMI: No, I think it was just the curfew. Number one, because their family--see, they gave us two to three weeks to evacuate. So a lot of them had to stay home and take care of their family, so they purposely didn't come. Then there's others who were staying over here. As far as I know, there was no blanket.

DUNHAM: When you went back home over the holidays, what was the scene with your family and the broader community in Madera?

INAMI: Oh, we were busy trying to take care of the store. There was a Chinese family who agreed to take over the store. So we had to go through the lawyer, with all the law, and inventory to take, and showing them what the--. So as I recall, the days just slipped right back. I remember on my birthday, April 25, the day before, we had to evacuate Berkeley. So I went back to Madera on April 24.

DUNHAM: So the semester wasn't quite over. You weren't able to finish the semester.

INAMI: No, no yet. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, the semester was over in May, end of May. So that's why some of the professors would give credit for the whole semester; but engineering is pretty tough, so they wouldn't give us credit. But when we had to evacuate was May 17. May 17, we had to evacuate. Dad said, "Remember this date." We'd tell him, "Why?" Said, "I just said remember this date, May 17." They took us to Fresno Assembly Center. There's a race track there, and they quartered us there till October, when they moved us to--.

DUNHAM: So what was that like, both the transport, even getting there? How did you get to--?

INAMI: Oh, the troop train. They put us on a troop train. Everything was under 01:47:00the government. Food, clothing. They took care of everything. They gave us when to move, and under guard, see? So they had to keep us under guard because of the ruling, because there would be no point in putting us in camp, if we weren't guarded, see?

FUKUMOTO: Can you describe the assembly center in Fresno? What was it like, what'd it look like, where did you sleep?

INAMI: Well, fortunately, we went in May and moved out in October or November. Fresno, it doesn't rain during the summertime, see, so there was no rain. So the weather was hot. But these barracks were tar-paper barracks. It wasn't bad. We 01:48:00had things to do. There was a electrician crew. We went around changing light bulbs and things like that. Everybody that wanted a job was given some sort of make-work type thing. And there was dances and so forth.

DUNHAM: How were your parents and siblings doing?

INAMI: Well, it's interesting to note--and this is true of both the camps and Fresno Assembly Center--the old folks, the parents said, "Oh boy, we get a chance to discipline our kids," because you were in the same building. Except 01:49:00that it didn't work that way, because we would eat at the same place--they had a mess hall--and us kids would go to eat in the mess hall together. Parents would go together. They'd have their own groups. Because see, because most of the parents worked day and night, it was a good chance; they could get together and talk about the good old days. Especially if they're from the same area in Japan. They'd be talking all day long about that. So there were two groups. So us youngsters, we had our own group; the old folks had their own groups. And they didn't do too much trying to discipline us, because they knew we couldn't get very far. Right? They said, oh, no problem. There's the guards. The interesting 01:50:00thing is--same as Fresno, but in Arkansas--they had machine guns. See, one of the reasons they tried to give us is, "We're going to put you in camp because if we don't, the others, the non-Japanese will come and kill you. So we're going to put you in camp and guard you." Well, we go to camp and those towers are all facing inward; machine guns are all facing inward. See? So that rationale didn't work. So anyway.DUNHAM: Were there any conflicts that you observed in Fresno or at Jerome with the guards?

INAMI: No, the guards were well behaved, you might say. They were friendly. Not 01:51:00too friendly, of course. But we had our own police force, see?

DUNHAM: Oh, a Japanese police force?

INAMI: Yeah, the Japanese police force. They ran the curfew, for instance. There was an eleven o'clock curfew, and they would knock on each barrack. Of course, they didn't count everybody, but whoever was in that barrack would say, "Present." Just like in the military. Yeah.

DUNHAM: As the oldest sibling, did you have to look after your younger siblings?

INAMI: No. Fortunately, we didn't have to look after our siblings because they 01:52:00couldn't get very far. We knew they couldn't because there were guards always there.

DUNHAM: So you mentioned it was busy, there were dances. What were other activities and things that were going on?

INAMI: Oh, they had school and classes. Even though I didn't have a degree I was able to teach advanced algebra. So I was teaching advanced algebra. We had to meet in the laundry room. But I kind of enjoyed having something to do. I kept a record of the students and how they did and things like this. Then when we moved to Arkansas, I thought, "Oh, great; I'll be able to teach for a while." But no. 01:53:00They said, "Since you didn't have a degree, you can't teach. You have to have a degree." Well, there was both the teaching and medical. See, the medical association in Arkansas--Arkansas is a rather poor state, so right away, as soon as they said they were going to put up two camps, the medical association said, we'll furnish all the medical people. Because a lot of them are underused. But then the government came in and said, "Hey, this is a government facility. They have their own doctors and dentists and medical people." They had to, because a Japanese American, a Nisei, would graduate from med school, and the only place 01:54:00he could work was among us. See? Now, some of the ones that were better suited did have white clientele. But as a result, there were enough doctors. So the government told the medical association, "They're furnishing their own doctors and medical people. In fact, some of them have better qualifications, like Harvard and so forth, than you do."

They did the same thing with teachers, see? So I wasn't able to get a teaching position. However, while I was an electrician, there was a guy named Ogawa. Kik 01:55:00Ogawa. He had a degree. Here we were doing electrician work, doing menial work. He said, "Hey, Frank, I'm going to go ahead and see if I can get a job as the chief electrical engineer." I said, "How are you going to do that?" Said, "Well, there's going to be 8,000 people, and they've got to have some sort of engineering." He says, "Since you don't have a degree, you can be my assistant. Assistant electrical engineer." He says, "I'm going to go ahead. You stay behind, and I'll see what I can do." So true to form, he was able to get the job as chief electrical engineer. There was a white guy, Mr. Matthews, who was head 01:56:00of the engineering department. But Kik was the chief engineer; I was the assistant. Instead of just menial work we got to design some of the future engineering requirements of the camp.

DUNHAM: How was the camp being designed? Was there input from the Japanese community?

INAMI: No, no. These camps were, you might say--I should've brought that book to show you--just stamped. See, the war was going on, and these people were used to building military camps, so it was just a--. Then they were also putting up prisoners-of-war camps. So it was just stereotyped everything.

FUKUMOTO: Did you know you were going into Arkansas from Fresno? Or did you--?

INAMI: Let's see. Rumors kept flying. See, the first rumor was that there're camps being built. Ten camps. See, there were two camps in Arkansas, one in Colorado, one in Utah, three in Arizona, one in--I've forgotten the couple of others. Now, someone was able to get that information. The question is, which one will we go [to]? I don't know why they picked Arkansas for us. But just the Fresno area. There were even people from Hawaii. See, they evacuated some people from Hawaii and some people from--I've forgotten where. There's a mixture.

DUNHAM: We interviewed one deaf woman who was there with her entire deaf family. Were you aware of any deaf or disabled members of the camp?

INAMI: I didn't notice any. But there was one family in Hanford, I think, that had a mentally retarded son. He would roam around the camp. They let him roam around because they knew that he was harmless. He'd run around and just say hi and then run off. You'd try to [have a] conversation with him. So that's the 01:59:00only one I remember.

DUNHAM: Well, you mentioned the camps were just sort of set up, the prisoner-of-war and these camps, all at once; but they did have to adjust some, or the community did help create some change over time. Like food originally started out, I've heard, bread-based, right? But ultimately did change? Do you remember that? Or was it already--?

INAMI: Oh, yeah, well, that's military-based, so bread and meat and potatoes type of thing. Rumors that we were eating horse meat, but-- [laughs]

DUNHAM: But did the food change or improve over time?

INAMI: Yeah. What they did was, they were able to get rice because Arkansas is rice country. So they were able to get rice and soy sauce. In fact--this was in the military I met this guy. He was a chemistry major; he had a degree in 02:00:00chemistry. So they wanted him to learn how to make soy sauce. He wanted me to help him translate some of the chemicals. But I don't think they were very successful because I guess you know soy sauce is made out of soy beans; and there's plenty of soy beans in the Midwest.

DUNHAM: What was the winter like? How did you deal with the weather? Did you have clothing for the cold?

INAMI: Yeah. Well, it's not so much the cold; you can get used to cold weather. But Arkansas is kind of the dividing line. So one day it'd be hot; and then the next day, you get the cold wind coming down, and possibly snow. This is what 02:01:00[was] really hard to get used to. But it was good for me, because when we got to Chicago, you get the snow. Then worse yet, when I got to Fort Snelling in Minnesota for the MISLS, Military Intelligence Service Language School, it really snowed. When it snows, it-- [laughs]

DUNHAM: What were the bathing situations like at the camps?

INAMI: Oh, we had common showers; by common: men's showers and women's showers. The other facilities for urination, they had for men and women. Then on the 02:02:00women, the same thing, except that it was open toilets. The women started to complain. At least--I think in Fresno they didn't partition, but camp was more or less permanent, so that's what they--. Like my dad was on the carpenter crew. They would put partitions in between the toilets. But I don't think they were able to put partitions on the women's shower, and a lot of the women complained that they don't want to be naked in front of everybody else.

DUNHAM: What were other recreation activities there? Music or sports or that 02:03:00sort of thing.INAMI: Oh, there was sports, baseball games. Let's see, baseball is a favorite one. They were playing Go and Mahjong, games like that. Services. Every Sunday they had Buddhist services as well as Christian services. And school, the regular school. I always had a job going to the engineering building, see?

DUNHAM: Were you paid for your job?

INAMI: Let's see. If you were a professional, you got paid $19 a month. A sub- professional like me, $16 a month. If you washed dishes, I think it was $12 a month as payment. Then you could get clothing after a while. You'd go through the Montgomery Ward or Sears Roebuck catalog and order basic things, especially coats.

DUNHAM: Especially for the cold?

INAMI: Yeah, it's because of the cold, right.

DUNHAM: So did people have pretty similar coats, then, if you were all ordering from the same catalog?

INAMI: Right. Oh, yeah, everybody had the same. Peacoats, I guess they were called. Navy coats.

DUNHAM: Well, thank you very much for today.

[End of Session]