Redell Randle | Interview 1 | February 7, 2011

REDMAN: My name is Sam Redman, and I'm here today in Richmond for another interview for our World War II American Home Front Project. Can I ask you to tell me your full name?

RANDLE: Redell Randle.

REDMAN: The spelling of the last name is R A N D L E, is that correct?

RANDLE: Correct.

REDMAN: Redell, where were you born?

RANDLE: Alexandria, Louisiana.

REDMAN: How long did you live there in Louisiana?

RANDLE: Until I was five.

REDMAN: Do you have some very early memories of Louisiana, do you remember that?

RANDLE: Oh, yeah.

REDMAN: Tell me about what that was like. What are some of the memories that you have of--?

RANDLE: Swamps, crawfishing, picking cotton, floating on logs, swimming in the Red River with a rope.

REDMAN: So a lot of early memories of the landscape and what things look like, and so your parents were sharecroppers, is that correct?

RANDLE: No.

REDMAN: They owned their own--?

RANDLE: I'm not sure.

REDMAN: But you know they picked cotton, but you're not as sure exactly what they--?

RANDLE: No.

REDMAN: Do you know what brought them out to California?

RANDLE: The economy.

REDMAN: The economy?

RANDLE: Shipyard work.

REDMAN: So they found work at Kaiser.

RANDLE: Yes, Kaiser Shipyard.

REDMAN: Did your father or mother or both find work?

RANDLE: Just my father.

REDMAN: What was he doing at the Kaiser shipyards?

RANDLE: Welding.

REDMAN: Do you know if he took classes?

RANDLE: No. He didn't take any classes. They taught him.

REDMAN: Then what did your mother do?

RANDLE: Nothing, housewife.

REDMAN: Housewife? All right. Did you have any siblings?

RANDLE: A brother.

REDMAN: How old was he?

RANDLE: He was younger.

REDMAN: Younger than you, okay. Tell me about what it was like for you to move 00:02:00to California. Do you recall that at all?

RANDLE: Oh, yeah.

REDMAN: What do you remember about that?

RANDLE: I remember getting on the train with a tag on, and the conductors and the porters looked after us from Louisiana to Richmond, Santa Fe Train Station.

REDMAN: So they dropped you off right here in Richmond, is that right?

RANDLE: Yes.

REDMAN: Do you know how your dad found out about work being available, because there were a lot of people coming from the South to this area at the time.

RANDLE: Just migrating.

REDMAN: Do you have memories of a lot of people moving, or did it sort of feel like wow, this is my family--?

RANDLE: I don't remember that era.

REDMAN: What was it like to grow up, so your family arrived, did they arrive, they moved into somewhere in Richmond, but not this neighborhood.

RANDLE: Right.

REDMAN: Where did they move in Richmond?

RANDLE: The canal, down there where all those buildings are, that was our projects.

REDMAN: All right, and do you remember growing up in that--?

RANDLE: Yes.

REDMAN: What was that like?

RANDLE: Fun.

REDMAN: What was fun about it, because there were other young kids?

RANDLE: Well, there was a lot of young kids; we had a lot to do. We'd climb mountains, we'd swim out in the bay, we skated, we worked shining shoes. A lot of things to do to keep us busy.

REDMAN: There were a lot of opportunities and--

RANDLE: Yes.

REDMAN: Do you remember what a typical day was like for your parents when you were a kid, like they would wake up in the morning and your father would go to work.

RANDLE: Well, he'd be gone when we get up. We would just wake us up and go to school. I went to Washington Elementary School down in the point, so we don't haven't had a clue.

REDMAN: Then your mother would take care of a lot of the chores around the house.

RANDLE: Right.

REDMAN: Did your father work the normal day shift at the Kaiser Shipyards, or do you recall him switching shifts at all, or--?

RANDLE: I don't remember.

REDMAN: Did he seem to like his work, did he seem--?

RANDLE: Well, there was so much going on to survive, no one had no problems. You worked, that's it. You had an obligation, and that was it.

REDMAN: Did he sort of, do you recall the start of the war?

RANDLE: Yes.

REDMAN: What do you remember about that? Were you still in Louisiana at the time?

RANDLE: No, I was out, come out here. It was just beginning to end.

REDMAN: Alright, and tell me about what you remember about the early years of the war, the start of the war.

RANDLE: I remember in Louisiana I used to get pea coats and go and put candy and sell it to the soldiers. They had a Red River divided the north in blue. I would 00:05:00go sell candy to all the soldiers along the Red River. One side was the blue, one side was the red. That was their maneuver. Then the next were--

REDMAN: All right, so some recollections of seeing soldiers around. So then can you describe a little bit about what Richmond was like as the war sort of progressed and a lot of people moving into this area?

RANDLE: You couldn't get on McDonald Avenue.

REDMAN: It was so busy.

RANDLE: With so many people, so much going on. We had department stores, people were buying, and buses picking up people taking them to work. And I was up and down McDonald on one skate shining shoes and making money.

REDMAN: As a kid that must have been kind of an amazing--

RANDLE: It was.

REDMAN: There was just so much activity going on, and it was all 00:06:00twenty-four/seven from what I hear.

RANDLE: Every day.

REDMAN: So even Thanksgiving holidays people would just be out--

RANDLE: Every day.

REDMAN: That's amazing.

RANDLE: Packed.

REDMAN: What were some of your early recollections of just on a day-to-day basis? You would maybe shine shoes; you would go to school?

RANDLE: Well, I would go to school and then shine shoes afterwards. And the requirement is that you go to school.

REDMAN: Did you like school?

RANDLE: Yes, loved it.

REDMAN: What did you like about it?

RANDLE: Because that's where all my friends were, and I learned new things every day, and I had teachers that was concerned to make sure we walk a line.

REDMAN: Tell me about some of your teachers.

RANDLE: Mrs. Augustine was my third grade school teacher, and the rest of them I don't remember. She stood out.

REDMAN: She stood out, what about, because she took such a concern and--

RANDLE: Right.

REDMAN: Can you describe your school in terms of race? Was it segregated, or was it a desegregated school?

RANDLE: What does that mean?

REDMAN: Were there children of other races there?

RANDLE: I never noticed them.

REDMAN: Was that true, too, in your neighborhood? You didn't really notice?

RANDLE: We didn't focus on race. No one focused on race. People from Louisiana, Arkansas, Oklahoma, Texas, we just focused on one thing, whatever that one thing was, we didn't pick out specifics.

REDMAN: So it was more focused, like you said, on work, and your dad's obligation and duty, and as a kid maybe having fun and going to school and learning things.

RANDLE: Yeah, and meeting people.

REDMAN: Was it an interesting thing for a kid to have friends from all over the 00:08:00country, to have friends from Oklahoma and Texas and California, and as a kid that must have been--?

RANDLE: That was fun.

REDMAN: Yeah. Did they all have different stories about--?

RANDLE: They all sat on the Point Richmond and out on the bay and told stories of what we remember as children, and Oklahoma, Texas, Mississippi, whatever.

REDMAN: And kids just got along.

RANDLE: We never thought about anything else but getting along.

REDMAN: It's interesting because you hear some of these stories from adults where there was an older generation of African-American families already in the Bay Area, and then some new African-American families come in from the South, and sometimes you hear stories of them not getting along as well. But from a kid's perspective, from a child's perspective, from the sounds of it you maybe didn't see any of that.

RANDLE: I didn't see any of that.

REDMAN: You were born around some of the toughest times of the Great Depression. You were pretty young when the economy crashed again in 1937. Do you have any early memory of your family's talk about money or finances?

RANDLE: We never talked about anything of such.

REDMAN: Not a concern.

RANDLE: Wasn't concerned because everyone was happy.

REDMAN: I've heard from a number of people that the war was actually--they sort of admit that the war was somewhat of a fun time, that there was a lot of social things going on--

RANDLE: It was a united time.

REDMAN: Tell me about that feeling. What did that--?

RANDLE: We all had a job to do. We had something to do for the soldiers. We all 00:10:00chipped in, we all pitched in working night and day. I could look out the window and see the ships being built. There was just no friction, no nothing. It was just hard to describe a problem, whatever. I never saw one.

REDMAN: So it's interesting that on one hand the war going on and people are concerned about the boys overseas, but on the other hand there is sort of a sense of pride and community and place.

RANDLE: Yes, we were happy, not happy happy, but we were contented. We know we had something to do and why we were doing it. We all felt part of it. No one was separate. Even if you were separate, you never felt separate, you felt together.

REDMAN: Did your parents talk at all about the difference of life between being African American in the South versus being in California?

RANDLE: No.

REDMAN: So even later in life they didn't necessarily--

RANDLE: No, we never put race into a picture.

REDMAN: Tell me about getting a little older in school, you started playing baseball. When did you start playing baseball?

RANDLE: When I was about seven I started to like baseball, and I stuck with it, and I got drafted by the St. Louis Browns--which is now the Baltimore Orioles--out of El Cerrito.

REDMAN: So tell me then about being pretty young and starting to play baseball in this area. Did you at first did you play on Little League teams in Richmond?

RANDLE: We didn't have Little League. We had to play against men.

REDMAN: Is that right?

RANDLE: Yes. We didn't have Little League. We had to wear size-36 pants, use a 36-wood bat, or we didn't play. Little League is something new.

REDMAN: So at that time it was either you jumped right in, or you didn't play.

RANDLE: Or you didn't play.

REDMAN: Tell me about what that experience must have been like as a young man playing against much older men?

RANDLE: Never noticed it. Before I was drafted I went to Ukiah, and we formed the Ukiah Elks. A guy came and got us, went to Ukiah. I was about seventeen, and we just slept all day on the lumber. Then we played ball that night, but we were all day sleeping on lumber. Then we would play with guys who had just left the Negro League, formed semi-pro, so we were picked up by them to go to Nevada, Reno, Eureka. We couldn't get out of the car; we were too young to go into the clubs. We'd just sit in the car and eat a hamburger and a milkshake and stay in there all night. We couldn't get out of the car.

REDMAN: When you're traveling around doing this, at what point does it become 00:13:00"you're doing this for fun because you enjoy it" versus "hey, this might prove to be somewhat of a career"?

RANDLE: It was fun, and I was trying to get to the major leagues.

REDMAN: And that kind of had always been a dream.

RANDLE: That's been my dream.

REDMAN: So then tell me about some of the East Bay. I know you mentioned that you didn't really pay attention to race, but was there even in the baseball leagues any sort of feeling about it?

RANDLE: No. Never came up. The focus was baseball. Nothing else was important.

REDMAN: I notice when we were talking in the pre-interview I asked what baseball players you most admired, and there was a mix in there of different--

RANDLE: I had all kinds; I had Larry Dolby, Cleveland, first black to play in the major leagues, American League. I had Jackie Robinson, I had Joe DiMaggio, I had Dario Lodigiani. I had all of these guys; this was my idols.

REDMAN: Tell me who those men are [referencing a picture Randle is holding]. What is this a picture of?

RANDLE: This is the Oakland Oaks, 1948. Harry Lavagetto, Ernie Lombardi. Loyd Christopher lived up on the hill. Will Hafey, Brooks Holder, {Haz Pupput?} This was my idol, this is it.

REDMAN: So you would go to Oaks games.

RANDLE: I would catch a streetcar. Right there on Cutting. We could ride free if we catch the train as it's moving. The guy would say, "Okay, catch the train, it's took off." We had to run to catch this streetcar to Oakland, and if we jump on we're on free. He wanted to see us run. And I could run. We'd go to this park and sit there all day. We'd just sit there. And Billy Martin; here's Billy Martin.

REDMAN: Right in the center here.

RANDLE: That's Billy. He went to Berkeley High School right down the street from Albany.

REDMAN: You went to El Cerrito High School instead of--

RANDLE: Richmond.

REDMAN: Richmond. How did that come to pass?

RANDLE: I had to go in front of the school superintendent, and they told me they would let me go to El Cerrito, but I must keep my grades up and stay out of trouble. And I did.

REDMAN: So why was it seen as a better opportunity for you to go to El Cerrito?

RANDLE: No, it was my friends I played semi-pro ball with, I wanted to play with them. and I live in the canal and I lived in Richmond district. I was out of El Cerrito district. That way--

REDMAN: But your friends were already going to El Cerrito, and you wanted to be with them.

RANDLE: I wanted to be with them.

REDMAN: Yeah, it makes sense.

RANDLE: That was the stipulation, must make that pencil work.

REDMAN: That must have been quite a motivation for you to keep your grades up.

RANDLE: Oh, well, it wasn't a motivation, it was a must.

REDMAN: I wanted to ask you because now the image you handed me is the 1951 Varsity baseball team for El Cerrito High School. I'm looking at this team, and 00:17:00I also printed off a list that I found on line. Can I read you some of the team members' names?

RANDLE: Sure.

REDMAN: So I've got a Grover Blackshear.

RANDLE: Left-hander.

REDMAN: Dale Brown.

RANDLE: Dale Brown, yes.

REDMAN: Willie Calvin.

RANDLE: He was drafted, yeah.

REDMAN: R. B. King.

RANDLE: R. B. King was a fighter.

REDMAN: Bob Sparks.

RANDLE: Yes. I think I followed that boy.

REDMAN: I've got your name here listed under center field.

RANDLE: That's where I played.

REDMAN: So I'd like to ask about these guys, this team. What do you remember about it?

RANDLE: Beautiful bunch of young men. Pumpsie Green.

REDMAN: So he was a catcher.

RANDLE: That's my hand on his--

REDMAN: Oh, okay.

RANDLE: He as the first black to be drafted by the Boston Red Sox.

REDMAN: Is that right?

RANDLE: Yes. Don Pryor. You see the name Don Pryor? He owns Pastime Hardware in El Cerrito. Those are my schoolmates.

REDMAN: So tell me about playing with this team. Had you played with them for 00:18:00quite some time?

RANDLE: No, most I hadn't played with until I got to high school.

REDMAN: But they were some of your friends from elsewhere, you'd known them from playing around with other leagues.

RANDLE: Semi-pro, right.

REDMAN: And you said, "Hey, wouldn't it be fun if we could play together?"

RANDLE: Yes.

REDMAN: Did you also know a little bit about their baseball talent from playing with them previously?

RANDLE: Oh, yes.

REDMAN: And that you admired some these other players?

RANDLE: Oh, sure. They all were very talented people. They would teach what looked good, "Show me how you do that?" And they would, so we used it.

REDMAN: So you'd learn from each other.

RANDLE: Oh, yeah, we had no choice. It looks good, you use it. I didn't have a glove. They would drop the glove for me to use just so you, one stipulation, you didn't put dirt in it. I used someone else's glove.

REDMAN: So it's kind of this incredible looking photograph because you've got 00:19:00such a world of talent here, and it's an interesting story moving over to El Cerrito. So then did you start playing with these fellows in about ninth grade when you started?

RANDLE: [gesture] About summer ball.

REDMAN: And then what was that like very early on. Did you realize that that group of young men was as talented as you'd thought?

RANDLE: Yes.

REDMAN: And you guys were winning games pretty early on?

RANDLE: We didn't know anything about winning. We just played until it got dark. That was it. We had the highest score who crossed the plate. That was it. How many we played, we never knew about innings, we just played until dark.

REDMAN: So it wasn't about the actual game itself, it was more about just playing.

RANDLE: Playing, yeah. Here's one, our coach Dick Lovette. He was the 00:20:00Superintendent of Richmond Unified School District. He just let it go about three years ago.

REDMAN: So he worked his way up from--

RANDLE: I guess.

REDMAN: Was he a teacher at El Cerrito High School, as well, or--?

RANDLE: No, he just--

REDMAN: Just a coach.

RANDLE: Just a coach. He came from Berkeley.

REDMAN: He worked his way up to Superintendent of Schools.

RANDLE: Of the Unified School District. Down in {Bissell?}.

REDMAN: This group of young men you go through all of high school--and you'd made this promise to do well in school.

RANDLE: Right.

REDMAN: How did that go? Were your friends--did they do pretty well in school?

RANDLE: They did very well in school.

REDMAN: That seems an interesting motivation to me, being told, getting kind of a kick in the pants, "You will do this."

RANDLE: Yes.

REDMAN: Can you tell me about your thinking on that? That was such a motivation for you and your friends.

RANDLE: Yeah, it was a big motivation because we had something in mind, and we had to follow the pencil, and if the pencil didn't work, you couldn't participate with the baseball. And we believed that because you would not get a chance to play baseball if your grades weren't up and you opened that door. That's it.

REDMAN: Did you think of your teammates and sort of what an opportunity it was to play with a talented group of friends?

RANDLE: We never thought about talented. Just play.

REDMAN: So then this group here ends up doing pretty well.

RANDLE: Very well.

REDMAN: And you guys win the championship.

RANDLE: We were the first one, we're historical.

REDMAN: So first El Cerrito--

RANDLE: Championship.

REDMAN: Of the division.

RANDLE: Yeah.

REDMAN: Tell me about what that experience was like.

RANDLE: We won it. That's it.

REDMAN: So for you it's more about just getting together and playing.

RANDLE: We did something as a group. We were all motivated by what we saw growing up with the soldiers, and the workers. We got--.

Let's see. Harvey Dugan, he was from Aberdeen, South Dakota. He spoke with Gene Corr, who was the manager of Contra Costa College, which was back behind the mountain, the shipyard. We had to wait till the soldiers, the sailors get out of their rooms, and we could go in class. Waited out in the rain until they were dismissed from their training, and we'd go inside and use it at Contra Costa College. That was us, standing waiting.

REDMAN: So you had to sort of navigate this world then--

RANDLE: We shared with the sailors. Yeah, that was Contra Costa College, and Gene Corr at El Cerrito was transferred to Contra Costa, and Mr. Lovette came in, Coach Lovette came in.

REDMAN: You mentioned something that was really interesting, that the sort of discipline that was required to move to a place like Richmond and go to work every day building ships was in some ways sort of similar to going to class and working with a pencil, and there was a discipline there.

RANDLE: Oh, very much so.

REDMAN: Where do you think that comes from?

RANDLE: The South.

REDMAN: Tell me about that.

RANDLE: The South is, everyone saying, "Yes, ma'am." "No, ma'am." No matter who. "Yes, sir." "No, sir." "Yes, ma'am." It wasn't "Yeah, all right." "Naw, okay." I'd never heard of such. "Yes, ma'am." Anybody, "No, sir." And you moved with 00:24:00the feelings.

REDMAN: So there was a series of values that came with--

RANDLE: The South. The South. That's what made us, every one of us from the South. They had two or three from California, but that didn't make any difference. We all was disciplined. "Yes, sir." "No, sir." "Yes, ma'am." "No, ma'am".

REDMAN: Tell me about how you end up in Acheson Village.

RANDLE: My brother was a fighter, Nunu Randle, we live in the projects, and he used to fight at Richmond Auditorium, and they would pack it. We got to know people, he got to know people. We lived in the canal, and they were going to destroy the canal. They were going to push what you see over there now, and we were pushed out. And my parents moved in here.

REDMAN: Do you remember about how old you were when the canal was being pushed out and you were being--?

RANDLE: Just beginning to get out of school. Just about that time.

REDMAN: So then your parents moved here through that connection.

RANDLE: Right.

REDMAN: What's interesting to me is that you had a family of athletes from the sound of it. So your brother was a successful fighter?

RANDLE: Oh, yeah, very successful.

REDMAN: Tell me about his career for a moment.

RANDLE: His career was--I just didn't like it, but I didn't really stay focused on it because I didn't like the fighting parts about it. But he loved it. He was on his way.

REDMAN: What ended up happening for him after--?

RANDLE: Fell in love. Children start coming, so he let it go. You don't have the 00:26:00legs or the whatever.

REDMAN: It's a hard sport, that's for sure.

RANDLE: It's a very hard sport. He used to pack the Richmond Auditorium. You couldn't get in the Richmond Auditorium as we were growing up. Things happened there.

REDMAN: What was that event like for you growing up and going to see your brother, your younger brother?

RANDLE: I didn't like it.

REDMAN: Were you scared for him?

RANDLE: Yes, but I didn't show it. I just went along with it, but I didn't like it.

REDMAN: Would your friends join you for some of those, or would you go with your mother and father to--?

RANDLE: I would go by myself, and R. B. King was also fighting.

REDMAN: Oh, really.

RANDLE: On that picture there.

REDMAN: Remind me what position he played?

RANDLE: Let me get R. B., let's see. [gets photo] Right there.

REDMAN: He was--let's see; I've got my roster here. So he played left field.

RANDLE: Yeah, but he was also fighter. He fought when he wasn't in the ring. He was fighting for--

REDMAN: So if someone would cross him, he'd--

RANDLE: No, not cross, he just was R.B. Boy, nothing but athletes. Ernie Broglio, up at the top. St. Louis Cardinals got him. El Cerrito's ball field is named after Mel Johnson. Mel was our second baseman, jumped off a pool and hit his head in a pool, and we lost him.

REDMAN: Was that during the season, or was that shortly after?

RANDLE: It was during the season. They named the field after Mel Johnson, yeah. [looking at other documents] Don Pryor, we were--Ernie Broglio, Rich Biagi. Boy, 00:28:00we were something else.

REDMAN: That seems like a startling number of players to get drafted and--

RANDLE: There were more ball players [on that team] than anything that I ever heard of in that era.

REDMAN: How do you think that happened? That's such an amazing--

RANDLE: Parents?

REDMAN: Okay, you guys had a good group of parents?

RANDLE: Oh, yeah. I had about three hundred parents. I didn't know who my parent was, no.

REDMAN: So you think maybe you're leaving the home, but really your parents were all around.

RANDLE: Home, you're never leaving a home. You're always under the eye of somebody which you didn't see. There's a lot of sky, but we were always under the microscope.

REDMAN: That was maybe a little stressful sometimes growing up, but it also 00:29:00probably felt pretty good at times.

RANDLE: We didn't feel it. We only knew there was eyes in the sky. That's all we needed to know. Where those eyes were, we didn't know, but we know they were there. We didn't know whose eyes, so we just did what we had to do, go get our little hub in the corner of Cutting, right there by the track, was Lucky Stores. We would go in there and get out crates and make little wagons, put wheels and deliver ice all through the community. We did everything. We were quite talented. We had woodshop in high school, we had mechanics at high school, we made little jewelry at high school, we did everything at school.

REDMAN: So that was a place where people could--

RANDLE: Learn.

REDMAN: Learn and really find their creative outlets it sounds like.

RANDLE: Yup. I was afraid of the woodshop because I didn't want to lose any fingers. They say, "Go cut this."

REDMAN: You didn't want to risk losing a finger?

RANDLE: No, can't do that. I took a long board and "brrrrr." Till I got confidence of how not to be afraid of it, but I was afraid of it.

REDMAN: Let's talk about your family moving here to this village, because for a long time my understanding is that this village had been segregated, and that it was--I wonder if you were some of the first African Americans.

Randle: We were the first.

Redman: You were the very first African Americans family to come here?

RANDLE: With Reverend Clark, Joseph Clark's father. That was it.

REDMAN: So he was a reverend, and he moved in right about the same time that 00:31:00your family did?

RANDLE: Same time.

REDMAN: What was that like?

RANDLE: I don't know. I just never thought about it.

REDMAN: It seems like it's a pretty big deal for your family to do that, but if you don't notice it, it just maybe isn't--

RANDLE: Everybody was--I don't know; I just never thought about it. It just never dawned on me that was that whatever was going on, I never heard of it, I never noticed it.

REDMAN: And you don't think your parents felt any differently?

RANDLE: No.

REDMAN: So how did you know that you were among the first people to come to the village? Did you learn that later?

RANDLE: Later. I mean I said "oh" and kept on going. Oh, okay.

REDMAN: So and people around here were friendly to you. They just carried on?

RANDLE: I was delivering papers up in here to everybody--like I said it was, "Yes, sir," "No, ma'am." "Yes, sir" no matter who.

REDMAN: Delivering papers is an interesting thing because you get to move around all then neighborhood, you see everybody.

RANDLE: Throwing papers, I learned to throw with both hands. Yeah, it was like a little bag, with all the newspapers. [uses his calling voice] "Richmond Independent Papers!" Slinging papers. I mean, I enjoyed that, and I was getting paid. But I was throwing, and I enjoyed throwing. I could hardly walk I had so many papers. It was a nickel a paper, and I would go knock on the door, "Collect time." There would be no anything, just "Okay, here's your money," and we'd go. We'd collect the money and go and take it to the Richmond Independent down here, 00:33:00and we'd get our little cut and go home.

REDMAN: So it was pretty straight forward and pretty fun?

RANDLE: Yes, everything was fun, this was fun. This was Richmond in general; it was fun.

REDMAN: And now tell me about after the war because a lot of thing changed right at the end of the war. A lot of people lost their jobs at the ship yards--

RANDLE: They did.

REDMAN: Did your father stay on at the Kaiser shipyard? Or did he find other work eventually?

RANDLE: I don't know. [laughs]

REDMAN: You know that's what brought him here but--

RANDLE: Oh yeah, it brought everybody that you see here. That's was the one thing going was Kaiser and Standard Oil. That was it, and Mare Island. It was all war stuff. It was Mare Island, Kaiser--

REDMAN: The Moore Dry Docks?

RANDLE: That came--that didn't come out with us. I don't remember that.

REDMAN: I've heard a lot of people then switched jobs at the end of the war, or found other work, and there were a lot of soldiers coming in--

RANDLE: Yes.

REDMAN: Who then were finding all sorts of work, and going to school on the G.I Bill.

RANDLE: {Naval?} Supply Center, Oakland Army Base, Camp Stoneman, Benicia, Mare Island, Hunters Point.

REDMAN: So now let me ask, there was also a major disaster in 1944 at Port Chicago.

RANDLE: Oh yeah.

REDMAN: Do you recall hearing anything about that?

RANDLE: Yeah I recall hearing that.

REDMAN: Do you recall the actual explosion itself.

RANDLE: Yes.

REDMAN: Tell me about that.

RANDLE: I thought it was Standard Oil!

REDMAN: You thought Standard Oil had exploded?

RANDLE: Yes.

REDMAN: So it was--

RANDLE: It was something to deal with. Yeah, that was really--that was a disaster.

REDMAN: Did it feel like a violent shake or--

RANDLE: It went "Boom". We were closer then--I was over in Vallejo. I was at the California YMCA, and that thing went off--I said, "ahh." Richmond, I don't know if they felt it as --we were closer at the Y on California street in Vallejo. Boy. Gosh!

REDMAN: So you were with some of your friends?

RANDLE: Yeah. {Lou Bryson?}. We were going to a dance up there with some of the kids, and we were invited up there.

REDMAN: And it just--everything shook?

RANDLE: Everything shook. And I said "Oh man," and they all said, "End of the world." And I said, "For what?" End of the world, yeah.

REDMAN: Did you hear any details about what was behind that disaster later on?

RANDLE: They kept it from us.

REDMAN: Oh, so it was a secret?

RANDLE: Well no, it was just--the Independent, you could read, but we didn't focus on anything of that nature. We were trying to get to the big leagues.

REDMAN: Sure. Then at the end of the war, do you recall the final days of the war, knowing that the U.S had won?

RANDLE: The end of the war--no, I don't remember the end of the war. I just remember in that time span.

REDMAN: Tell me about the end of your high school career, and getting drafted into the major leagues.

RANDLE: By the major leagues.

REDMAN: When did you find out, and how did you find out?

RANDLE: Well I was invited; it was two of us, Lou Bryson of Richmond. We were invited to Bush, no--Raymundo Park in West Oakland, the guy who drafted us was Tony Robello with the St. Louis Browns. And he worked us out, and I could throw both hands, I was throwing left handed and he said, "Can you throw right?" I said, "Sure." He said, "You can run." I said, "Sure." So we were drafted. I went to Pocatello, Idaho, in the Pioneer League. Willy Tasby, Frank Robinson, Vada Pinson, they were at Salt Lake City. They were on the Cincinnati, we on the Browns.

REDMAN: You played with Frank Robinson.

RANDLE: We all played with Frank Robinson in Oakland.

REDMAN: Oh, really so you'd known him for some time?

RANDLE: We played American Legion against him. Vada, Frank and I were standing up here; Billy [Martin] let us in. Frank and I was up here; we were all up in here

REDMAN: Oh, so you guys would go to games together--?

RANDLE: Billy. Yeah, Billy would bring us.

REDMAN: So you had known some of these guys, even if you hadn't played with them you'd known them form --

RANDLE: I'd known them for--Frank, Billy; Vada; Joe Porter, J.W. Porter; Loyd Christopher; Stan {Jobbers?}. Jimmy Landers.

REDMAN: Not only did you have a successful baseball career yourself but it seems like a lot of you teammates in several steps--that's just an unbelievable amount 00:39:00of talent.

RANDLE: Yes, Ernie Broglio with the St. Louis Cardinals. We were just-- there was just so much talent there. {inaudible} was drafted by the San Diego Padres; now, that was with the Pacific Coast League. Yeah it was. R.B. was drafted by the Cleveland Indians, Ernie was drafted by the St. Louis Cardinals, Pumpsie by St. Louis, Harvey was drafted by the New York Yankees.

REDMAN: What was it like to play in Idaho?

RANDLE: Oh, okay. In Idaho it was boring because we had to just sit, nothing to do, everything was closed but the courthouse. So we had to go to the court and sit all day. Until time to play baseball at night, and we'd just sit. No problems it was just like California, no problems.

Redman: The other young men know that if they kept their nose clean and played 00:40:00baseball that they'd have a shot at going to the next level, but it was also pretty boring.

RANDLE: It was boring because we--you were on strange turf and you didn't know your way around so you had to just wait till--you knew where the ballpark was, but everything else you didn't know where it was. So we would just sleep all day, and then we had to get up, go eat, and go to the ballpark. Come back, go to sleep, go to the ballpark.

REDMAN: I mean some people say they just eat, breath, and sleep baseball, but from sounds of it that's exactly what you were--

RANDLE: If you're not from that area, you don't know anything, so I went to the courthouse.

REDMAN: And that's about all there was to do. So then, what was the next step for you, did you--you moved on from Idaho to another league?

RANDLE: Well the Korean War got me.

REDMAN: Oh really so you were drafted into the military?

RANDLE: Yes.

REDMAN: Into what branch?

RANDLE: Army.

REDMAN: What was that like?

RANDLE: Beautiful.

REDMAN: You had a good experience?

RANDLE: Yeah I met friends from all over the United States. "You're from Oklahoma, I'm from Louisiana up top, you're at the bottom. Over here's Arizona, over here's Texas, over here's Mississippi, over here's Arizona."

REDMAN: It seems that a lot of people might be upset one reason or another that their baseball trajectory was interrupted by being drafted. But for you, you sort of embraced the experience.

RANDLE: Yeah, I learned. I mean, I said, "Okay, if it weren't for this I wouldn't have a chance to play baseball." So I felt I had to--I went in, because everyone else did something.

REDMAN: So there was an obligation there--

RANDLE: There was--yes. Someone went before--I used to see the guys come. I'll show you that later. But when I was drafted I stuck my chest out.

REDMAN: You felt like it was your turn.

Randle Yes it was my turn, and I said, "Hey," and I stuck my chest out. And I was proud to wear my little--oh God, yeah.

Redman: And so where were you stationed at first?

RANDLE: Fort Ord.

REDMAN: What was that like?

Randle: An experience.

Redman: So you said you were meeting people from all over--

RANDLE: All over, everywhere in the United States. It was beautiful to meet people from all walks of life. Just like here; it was the same, no difference. Just there was no ladies here it all guys. "Where you from?" "Oklahoma." "Where you from?" "South Dakota." "What's it like?" "Where you from?" "California." "You're from California? You ever see a movie star?" "Nope."

REDMAN: So that's something that's kind of fun to talk about. Did they have sort of preconceptions of what California was like?

Randle: Oh yeah. Everyone was a star. You know. "Did you see Loan Ranger?" 00:43:00"Nope." "Did you see World Warriors?" "Nope." "Did you see Trigger?" "Nope." "You're from California?" "Yep."

REDMAN: "Sorry to disappoint you," right? I want to step back. There were a couple more questions I wanted to ask about the war or right around the active times of the shipyards. There was rationing going on during the war, where people could only get so much meat and butter and rubber for their tires. Do you remember any of that?

Randle I remember the little coupon you used to have to go get sugar from the stores, but I don't remember the rubber tires cause--

REDMAN: You were pretty young; you didn't have to drive.

Randle I didn't have to drive. I would just go get the sugar with the stamp, 00:44:00whatever. I remember that, but not too clearly.

Redman Now you mentioned over the phone that you delivered newspapers, but you also delivered food, is that correct.

RANDLE: Sometimes we sold watermelons and stuff like that. We'd get up in the morning before dark, before day and go to Santa Rosa and pick beans, tomatoes, watermelon, whatever, and come back and--

REDMAN: Along with shining shoes and delivering newspapers

RANDLE: We did everything.

REDMAN: What did you do with your money that made? Did you save it?

RANDLE: Bought my school clothes. I went and got me a pair of Levi's and a pair of tennis shoes and was happy all day. Wore them for generations.

Redman: I did want to ask one other question about growing up and being pretty 00:45:00young. With these young men, did they start dating girls at all, did they start meeting girls, and at that point, what was that like for that young group of men coming up here.

RANDLE: Well every--we had recreations centers. Each project had recreations, and that would be like--they would have dances, and you would go dancing. You'd go to the movies, go to the parks, you'd go out and sit on the Bay and put your feet in the water with the girls. Climb that tall mountain with the girls. Just walk with the girls; that's it.

REDMAN: So there were girls to meet who you would be able to spend time with and get to know, but there was always the sort of watchful eye of your three hundred 00:46:00other Moms.

RANDLE: There was the watchful eyes--every move you--yeah, they were there. And the young ladies, boy. Respect was there; we had eye holes, we'd just see pictures of Dorothy Lamour and Veronica Lake. Those beautiful women, we'd just look, but we had nothing but respect for the young ladies.

REDMAN: Now, I'm going to ask a couple more questions about Atchison Village, but I was wondering if you could tell me anything more, first, about your time in the Army. Then you went and did training and got to meet all of these people from all over. Then did you go over to Korea?

RANDLE: I went over to--I was at camp Desert Rock, in Nevada where they were blasting the bomb.

REDMAN: Really?

Randle: I was right there; we were guinea pigs.

REDMAN: Tell me about that.

Randle Well there was--the way the bomb was exploded, it was on the tower, and at the top of that tower was that bomb. We were in trenches. There were houses built just like this, dummies, everything in this house was in those homes out there in the desert. And then it said "Cover your eyes", and we did that. I had my hands like this. And it said, "Please stay put," over the loud speaker. And it raised up and it came back.

REDMAN: Wow.

RANDLE: And I could see right through my hands, I saw all of my bones through my hands, like this. I saw everything. But it raised up, and it hit us from behind, and blew us into the fox hole, and it distorted houses. That was part of it, the 00:48:00distorted houses, and to see what results there were from that bomb. We saw--we were guinea pigs for that bomb.

REDMAN: And it was devastation in that area?

RANDLE: Oh God, never saw anything like that before, like that Nevada testing ground where the bomb was.

REDMAN: Did it remind you at all of the Port Chicago explosion?

RANDLE: No, because I was in it. This one [the atomic tests] you know, you're sitting on like that stand, sitting on the top of this tower, and it says "Please stay within." That's what the loud speaker said. And when it said "Poof" we would raise up, and it went past us. Then we raised up, and it came right back; it went right to the top.

Redman Wow, so you could feel the shock wave?

RANDLE: Feel, you could see your bones. You could see through your hands!

Redman: That's such an amazing--

Randle: Man I kept saying, "It's just like I'm looking at that building, you know 00:49:00I can see all of that." It was something to deal with.

RANDLE: Boy that was an experience.

REDMAN: The next question I was going to ask was, being in this project where you're a guinea pig for the bomb, my goodness, did that change your feeling about being in the Army at all?

RANDLE: No.

REDMAN: You were still happy to be meeting people and having friends?

Randle I was happy to be giving something back. Just that someone went before me--we lost one of my schoolmates, two of them, Emit {Neel?}, and {Jail?} Woods. He was before me and in center field, and I had to wait till he graduated to 00:50:00move up. He was killed, Emit (Neel) was killed in Korea, so I lost quite a few friends, and quite a few of us didn't go anywhere, we just hung in there.

REDMAN: Yes, and so you were feeling as though you wanted to do your duty and --?

RANDLE: Everyone else--everyone else went, so you know, why am I not going?

Redman: Right, so then did you end up going to Korea? You were at camp Desert Rock like you said, where these experiments took place, and then did you leave from there, or was that the end of your time in the service?

RANDLE: Right. I just piddled around and got confused with the bomb, that's really--and then I got out, and that's it.

Redman: So that was the end of your time in the service. Did you come back to Richmond after that?

RANDLE: No, I came back to Richmond.

REDMAN: So as a young veteran, you came back to Richmond. Tell me what your life was like then.

RANDLE: Confusing. It was confusing that it was changed, the discipline was not--I didn't remember, I wasn't used to selfishness, the "me, my." We were just a "we."

REDMAN: So you feel like the people in Richmond had changed significantly?

RANDLE: Yes they changed, oh yeah, they were very angry, I felt-- they didn't seem to accept us.

REDMAN: Where do you think the anger came from?

RANDLE: That's a good question. We lost it after that. Well, we started losing it after the World War with Japan; we start losing it, we start losing respect. And it just--we haven't regained what we had; we've lost it.

REDMAN: So now I recall reading that in 1946 there was a big general strike in Oakland that shut the city down. There were a bunch of unions that got together and there was a big general strike. Do you maybe remember that?

RANDLE: No.

REDMAN: Let's move on for a little further down into the start of the Civil Rights Movement and some of--do you recall learning about Martin Luther King and some of the marches that were going on in the South?

RANDLE: I heard about it.

REDMAN: You heard about it?

RANDLE: Oh sure.

REDMAN: But it wasn't terribly relevant at the time to your life?

RANDLE: No.

REDMAN: Why do you think that was? That that didn't resonate.

RANDLE: Because I grew up before that happened, and I never experienced what they was talking about.

REDMAN: Do you think life was different for people in the South?

RANDLE: Oh, yeah. I didn't experience what they said. I mean I just never noticed all of what they were saying. I never noticed when I came to California. I never noticed that.

REDMAN: So the anger and some of the confusion and the change in discipline, do you think that was more about a changing culture just in general, or do you think that was this area, or do you think American culture was changing at the time? Do you have any sort of feeling about--I mean, I asked where this anger came from, and you weren't really sure where the anger came from or the changes 00:54:00in behavior and attitude. That's a really interesting observation that people were losing some of the discipline and there weren't the "yes ma'ams" and the "no ma'ams."

RANDLE: Well, it's because it's like that--the respect, "You're not my Dad, you're not my Mom." That's what I began to hear. But we never heard that growing up, "You're not my Dad, you're not my Mom." We never heard that. We never experienced churches being locked, windows being locked, leaving your bicycle in the front yard. We did all that; we had no locks, you know. We had no locks; nothing was locked.

REDMAN: So there was some pretty rapid changes in Richmond. I mean, between the time you left to go play baseball in Idaho and then your time in the service for a few years and you come back, a lot of things were different.

RANDLE: Yeah, very much so. Yeah, it was frightening, the things, the people, the attitudes. I went to a dance, I had on my blue scarf and my cap "Army," and a guy spit in my face. That's the auditorium. I just wiped it off and walked off, because I was disciplined. I wouldn't have approached him any other way, but I was very--I couldn't figure out what was happening, you know, why people were doing what they were doing.

Redman: Shows incredible restraint not to--

RANDLE: We had to be, because I had on the uniform and I couldn't, I just--

REDMAN: Now, do you feel like his reaction was because you were in the military 00:56:00or because you were black or--?

RANDLE: He was black.

REDMAN: So this was a black man who did this to you; that's very interesting. You felt like there was just a general lack of respect.

RANDLE: Yeah, they were just losing it, starting losing it. When I was in the service it started getting away. There was no more "yes sir, no ma'am"; it was getting away slowly.

Redman: So what caused you to stay? You said it was a frightening time in this area, and you chose to stay, is that correct?

RANDLE: Because I was raised up here.

REDMAN: And this was your home?

RANDLE: Yeah this--I don't remember what they're doing now, I didn't--we didn't do that. "Why?" That's the question. "Why you doing this?" We didn't say it to them, but we were just trying to figure out what going on with them.

REDMAN: Tell me about what did you do for work after you left the military you 00:57:00came back--?

RANDLE: I went to Naval Supply Center in Oakland as a messenger.

REDMAN: What was that like?

RANDLE: As a veteran, I was getting frustrated because I couldn't seem to advance, but a person, Willie McGee--do you know who he is?

REDMAN: No, tell me.

RANDLE: Willie McGee's father--Willie McGee, he was All America, he was a Hall of Famer with the St. Louis Cardinals. Well, I taught him how to play baseball, and his father worked at Naval Supply Center, and I knew him. He told me, "Stay with this job." I said, "I'm not making any money." He said, "Stay with this job." He just kept drilling me with that, and I wanted to go to Milpitas at the {Ford?} plant, and it folded. And I stayed at Naval Supply Center, and I went from Naval Supply Center to Alameda Naval Air Station, and click.

REDMAN: And then as soon as you got there, your career--

RANDLE: Started moving.

REDMAN: So Willie McGee's advice was--

RANDLE: Willie McGee's father.

REDMAN: Oh, his father's advice was--

RANDLE: "Just get to work. Just get to work and you'll be all right. The hardest part, get to work." Everyday.

REDMAN: He saw in you this young man who had helped mentor his own son, so there was this connection there. Once you get to Alameda Naval Station, did you stay on as a messenger there but move up?

RANDLE: No, I was moved up as a specialist for the USS Hornet. I supplied, when it come into port, we supplied them. I made sure they had all their belongings to get out to the sea.

REDMAN: So you were working in some of the logistical set of getting the 00:59:00supplies onto the ship. Were you moving any munitions or any weapons or anything?

RANDLE: No that was only done at Benicia. We were just supplies like screws and bolts and just something to keep the enterprise going. We were supply--they were going to Subic Bay; we were shipping to all of the fleets.

REDMAN: Would they come back with supplies from other places that then you would then unload, or would they come back empty?

RANDLE: No, they would come back empty. What were those guys called? The Seamen, the Merchant Seamen would come full, and they were stored within. But they wouldn't come to the Navy; they would go to their own warehouses on the piers. The Naval Supply Center was restricted; only the big babies would come in.

REDMAN: You were a civilian. What was it like being a civilian working with people who were still in the service? Did they see you as a veteran?

RANDLE: Yeah, close-knit.

REDMAN: So there were never any problems between the civilian and the military?

RANDLE: No, never. Sometimes some guys would get upset because we--you know, we had five points, ten points, and they got sort of frustrated with that, jealous that we've gone into the service. But they were here; we left. So we got a little privilege; they didn't like that.

REDMAN: Okay, so they didn't like that some of the veterans had--

RANDLE: Privilege, had steps to get jobs and to get jobs, to get housing, get schooling. They didn't like that.

REDMAN: But you felt it just sort of made up for the fact that you had been away for a couple of years and also had done your duty, is that right?

RANDLE: No, it didn't dawn on me that I'd get a privilege. I didn't care. I just 01:01:00did what I had to do. I'm out of it now, so--

REDMAN: Is that where you spent the remainder of your career?

RANDLE: Yes.

REDMAN: Looking back on that work, what sort of emotions do you feel? Are you proud of what you accomplished in that career?

RANDLE: Well, at that moment I was there when Kennedy was assassinated, and I'll never forget that. And I'll never forget Naval Supply because I met all walks of life again, people from Oakland, everywhere, just united, had one mission, that was it. There was no--it was all one mission, but you had that envy to come in because we were vets, and we did get the privilege of ten points, five points, and go to school, and get a GI loan; we had that privilege. We deserved that. But a lot of people didn't think--why they felt, "Well I didn't go." Well that's just--you know why you didn't go. I don't ask the question, but I think to myself, "The reason why you didn't go is because you couldn't qualify to go, so 01:02:00you either had a problem or you had a record, or something." We were clean, so we went.

REDMAN: So through hard work and also a little bit of luck that you'd found some of these opportunities and you'd meet all of these really interesting people, you were able to build this successful career.

RANDLE: Oh, yeah.

REDMAN: And you stayed in Richmond this whole time?

RANDLE: Oh, yeah.

REDMAN: Was there ever any desire to go elsewhere.

RANDLE: No.

REDMAN: Tell me about some of your attachment then to this village, how you sort of feel about this neighborhood.

RANDLE: There's no place other than Fort Ord that was like this. This--the same feeling everyone from all walks of life.

REDMAN: We sort of left off with the community where there's some changing attitudes about respect--

RANDLE: Oh, that's gone forever.

REDMAN: So you feel like that's improved?

RANDLE: No.

REDMAN: So the respect level is sort of gone. What, then, has changed--and let's talk about maybe some of the bad things, and then we'll talk about the good things. What are some of the bad things that have changed in this community that you sort of--?

RANDLE: "You're not my Dad when you try to discipline." They don't have an interest in anything that's constructive; that's the problem. And the schools, they just go there just to go. They're not really into it, and there's no discipline, no big brother looking over their shoulders and saying, "You gotta go to school." There's no trust; they have a lack of trust. And they're angry, 01:04:00very much so.

REDMAN: I know I've kind of asked this question, but I'm interested to see what you think about this. Where do you think many of these problems stem from, because you have this sort of discipline, and you connected it to the war work, which I found interesting? Seeing these war workers do their duty and then that sort of being pushed into your school work, and your hard work with baseball, and then some of that sort of goes away. Do you feel like not being tied together around the Kaiser shipyards or that sort of work hurt the community, like it made some of this respect level go away?

RANDLE: It made--after it was completed the respect sort of got away. Because 01:05:00people coming in, and you're losing an Oklahoma person, and you're getting a Chicago person.

REDMAN: There's a different set of values.

RANDLE: Yeah, that's it. And when you open that door and go out, you are already disciplined; you know what to expect without being told. And if you're told, that's a problem. So, "being told," we already knew

REDMAN: So if you got into trouble when you were young you knew what you were doing before--

RANDLE: Not getting into any trouble. We were grown enough to say, "We may get in trouble doing that, because everybody do that". That's it.

REDMAN: Tell me about some of the good ways that you feel like this neighborhood has changed. Do you think that there are any real improvements over the last several decades?

RANDLE: The Southern hospitality. These are non-Southerners, they don't have that personality of the South. I guess I'm just a South Southerner.

REDMAN: Right yeah, so do you still like living in this area?

RANDLE: Yeah, I love it because--a lot of the older persons are still in here.

REDMAN: Really? Are there some of your friends from, high school, or is it more people from your generation?

RANDLE: One, or two, that I can relate to that we go back. We live in history we talk of historical things. We stay in the past. Because it helps to motivate us to this spot we're in now.

REDMAN: I'd like to conclude by asking if there's anything else you'd like to share about--I know we've talked about a lot of things. We've talked about everything from baseball, to rationing, to what it was like moving here, sort of your reflections on the community and how things have changed.

RANDLE: They have changed a lot. There's not that Southern hospitality; that's the only thing--we were used to that, doors open, cars unlocked. We were used to people passing through the yards, but just passing through, and you know, it's just not the same.

REDMAN: Yeah, sort of miss some of that?

RANDLE: Oh yeah, it's that hospitality, that's what. The South, I'm sorry--

REDMAN: No that's fine. That's--

RANDLE: The South. It's amazing what it has given--

REDMAN: --this area.

RANDLE: Yeah, and people from the South. We were all Southern in California. They call us Oakies and Arkies, but we made it. That's why they have what they have today.

REDMAN: I've heard a lot of people who sort of reflect on--there were some negative things said about Arkies and Oakies, there was some tension between the Californians and the Arkies and Oakies, but you think maybe that there was an advantage being from the South in some of the values that they brought with them to California.

RANDLE: Oh, yeah, that's right. That's why we're still here. Neighbors, the word neighbor--you have to be from the South to understand what you're talking about. This is my impression. So I learned that to take it with the Army, I took that with me. "Where you from? You reminded me of--." You know, "Hey!" But people put out those taboos, and if you follow that lead you will be unhappy. We were 01:09:00always--I mean, I never had so much fun, was in the Army I had--

REDMAN: Really in--being a young man in the Army, okay.

RANDLE: Yeah, I had a lot of fun in the Army. I just--it was an experience I'll never forget. The Army. Just you go in--I had to remember my Social Security, my MOS number to get paid. To keep a necktie, and shine shoes, bed clean--I mean I just--it was fun. And you had friends. Everyone did KP, so when I had a friend and I wanted to get some more potatoes, you just--it was fun, it was a lot of fun. These kids don't know what their missing.

REDMAN: So you think some of that discipline would be good for--

RANDLE: Yes. That's all they need. If they can get in to the draft--you know people say "dodge the draft," well, give back, just an inch. So I felt, I'd give back, you know. That's all I could do, I've done it. So now it's up to the rest of the people to do what they have to do.

REDMAN: Well, I'd like to thank you for sitting down with me today.

RANDLE: No problem.

REDMAN: All right, I appreciate it.

RANDLE: [turns to photos] This is the--see this now look at that, now that's the--

REDMAN: So this is the Bay Bridge

RANDLE: That's the person who found John, Mr. Thompson, who {inaudible} John was in El Cerrito, High School.

REDMAN: When John Fogerty--

RANDLE: Was in High School. At El Cerrito.

Redman: How did you meet him?

Randle Through Mrs. Thompson. The guy working on--

REDMAN: Working on the--.

RANDLE: Yeah, he had a record company.

REDMAN: And how did they know that you played--did you say to him, "Hey, I have this band"?

RANDLE: No, I just, I was writing, and I needed someone to play the guitar; I was new. And Audrey Calvin, James {Power?} introduced me to the Blue Velvets. Which was John Fogerty. And I went to listen to John Fogerty, I said, "Okay, I want you to play on my record." He said "Okay." All he could go was just three strings, doon doon doon doon, doon doon. That's all he could do, for me.

REDMAN: And that's all you needed for--

Randle That's all. I said, "What do you think I should do today?" He said, "I think I should play this." I said "Well, let's see it".

Redman And you guys hit it off and--

RANDLE: Yeah, John Fogerty, yeah.

REDMAN: So the name of your first album was called "Honey," you said.

RANDLE: "Honey", it was called "Honey." [sings] "Doon doon, honey kiss me." John's going, "Doon doon, doon doon, doon doon ,doon doon." That's all he could do.

REDMAN: What record studio did you record this in, the man who had the record company--

RANDLE: My own.

REDMAN: So you kind of made your own recording--

RANDLE: I did everything.

REDMAN: What was that like? I mean--

RANDLE: I wanted to catch up with Motown.

REDMAN: Did you have favorite musicians growing up, that you'd--?

RANDLE: Uh Ray Charles, we brought to the Richmond Auditorium, James Brown, Bobby Bland, Etta James, Nat Cole.

REDMAN: And so you wanted to sort of emulate some of these characters too.

RANDLE: I was bringing them in, I was bringing in acts, and getting [radio station] KYA, you know this is before you were born, KYA. Sly and the Family Stones. Their girl trumpet player played with John Fogerty, Cynthia Robinson.

REDMAN: So then you dedicated this album to Robert F. Kennedy, is that correct?

RANDLE: To John.

REDMAN: To John Kennedy.

RANDLE: Yeah, that's the letter you read there.

REDMAN: So tell me about, what is that letter? Just tell me about that--

RANDLE: The letter is to thank me for putting the record together for his brother, from the Attorney General and Robert Kennedy.

REDMAN: That's incredible, and now these--I noticed there were a couple of other--yeah, right there.

RANDLE: These Japanese things?

REDMAN: Tell me about Japanese internment.

RANDLE: This camp, this flower place is down at 52nd street by Carol's, that Japanese church. This is where my schoolmates use to live in the projects.

REDMAN: They lived in a different project--?

RANDLE: No.

REDMAN: No, in the same project?

RANDLE: Yeah, right 52nd, 51st, yeah. Stairsteps.

REDMAN: The Japanese at the start of the war are taken away--.

RANDLE: Yeah, my schoolmates.

REDMAN: And what did you, do you remember that they had to leave?

RANDLE: This was given to them.

REDMAN: Now this is an original poster, is that right? It says on here, "Instructions to all Persons of Japanese Ancestry." This must have been an amazing experience to observe as a young kid. What did you think about it? These were your schoolmates.

RANDLE: I didn't understand it. They just rounded them--they had to go report to the Post Office down on Nevin, and then when I went to El Cerrito they were all there, and they were rounded up.

REDMAN: There was either a race track, or was it the El Cerrito High track, that they set up a temporary camp before they shipped them off.

RANDLE: I'm not sure.

REDMAN: This must have been--I mean, it was a confusing experience for you.

RANDLE: Yeah quite confusing.

REDMAN: You knew that we were fighting the Japanese, but why your friends from school might be taken away--

RANDLE: Right. I had no clue of that; I never dreamed that.

REDMAN: So they're away from--this poster is dated May 5,, 1942, and they--then it says here they need to leave by May 6 or May 7, and then the war ends in 45. So did they come back following the war, your friends from school?

RANDLE: Right on {Wright?} and 14th street, Ben {Narasaki?} is there. That's it.

REDMAN: So some of your friends did come back to this area. But what happened to their apartments in the projects, do you remember?

RANDLE: They tore them down.

REDMAN: They just tore the project down. That's incredible.

RANDLE: And they got this, this is still standing, this flower place is still standing. But there's nothing--there's weeds are up there right now.

REDMAN: Reflecting back on this, now that you know what you know now, we talked about what it was sort of like as a kid, sort of just being confused, but how do you feel about all of this now?

RANDLE: I still don't understand it. And the Japanese people that I know, they don't talk about it. They don't talk about it, and when I present this to some of the people that I know, they look at me like--they seem to be afraid to talk about it.

REDMAN: You clearly find this to be an interesting thing and a confusing thing.

RANDLE: Oh, yeah. I'm just--and they were rounded up. This is other pictures that--and I just--they're my schoolmates. You know, I said, "Wow." I didn't understand.

REDMAN: Yeah, that this had happened to your friends. So then what happened to your musical career? You make this album, and then did you get distracted by baseball? Or did you--

RANDLE: John Fogerty went with Fantasy Galaxy. I just lost all interest. It was getting too rough for me to pay payola; I couldn't pay that money. I didn't have that kind of a bankroll to get started. And then I was trying to get off the ground with that and couldn't get it up off the ground.

REDMAN: But you had fun during that time?

RANDLE: Learning this business, yeah. I had a lot of superstars in my corner, 01:18:00Yes Sly was under us. John was the biggest. John, Joe Simon, Jimmy McCracklin sold billions of records. Etta James. I was running around North Richmond trying to book Ray Charles and James Brown, and we brought them to the Richmond Auditorium. It was packed.

REDMAN: So you'd book these acts as a pretty young man.

RANDLE: With other people. Ray {Doebarr?} was in control. I was just saying, "This is what we should do"; I was given instructions to him.

REDMAN: So do you feel like he then had sort of the business savvy side of things, and then you sort of had a feel for what people would want to come to see. You sort of knew people will come and see Ray Charles.

RANDLE: Yeah, because we had KDIA and KSOL played R&B Records. And Ray Doebarr was right there on Alcatraz in Berkeley, and I would just scout around trying to find--I could sing; I used to sing in El Cerrito all the time, so I knew; I had 01:19:00a good ear. And Johnny was the biggest one. people kept looking like, "You had John Fogerty"? Yeah, little John Fogerty.

REDMAN: How do you feel about his success? And let's talk too about some of the success of these athletes that you played with, and then musicians, other people were very successful in their careers. Were you happy for them?

RANDLE: Yeah, very much happy for them, yeah. Well, you've seen Sly Stone, haven't you?

REDMAN: Oh yeah. Sure.

RANDLE: The girl trumpet player, Cynthia Robinson. She was out in North Richmond; she was on my record called "Honey" with John Fogerty, One called "Foggy." She was right there, and then Sly picked her up, and KYA, and now you know the rest of the story. That's Cynthia Robinson, out of Sacramento.

REDMAN: So you feel like there's a little bit of a connection there--yeah, that's a fun--it must be fun to turn on the radio and hear some of those--

RANDLE: Oh yeah. Well you don't hear John any more, Doug and Stu [of Creedence Clearwater Revival], they're just low profile since they got their problems going. Solved now, they're sort of low profile, Doug, Johnny, Stu. Boy!

REDMAN: Well, once again, thank you for having and sharing. I mean, this is an incredible artifact that you have here; it's really something else.

RANDLE: [Looking at photos] That's the one that--this is the one, this is the monster. some of these--I was coaching in the {Auptomos?}League, all Japanese kids.

REDMAN: Oh really, so when was this?

RANDLE: It was before I went into the service.

REDMAN: You were coaching Japanese kids.

RANDLE: In the Auptomos League.

REDMAN: They were you friends and then--

RANDLE: Their families, or their friends' children, whatever. I was in the League, coaching them.

Redman: Let me ask quickly about, just as we rap up here, how did you--you scout now for--

RANDLE: I was scouting.

REDMAN: When I asked when you started scouting you kind of said as long you can really remember.

RANDLE: Yeah I go way back with the Cubs, before the Devil Rays were Tampa Bay. That's how far I went back. You hear of the Devil Rays? Well, they were not the Devil Rays. They were--we didn't have cards. When they were forming, I went with them. Then I floated off with the Angels and then the Red Sox. Then to high-schools and then colleges.

REDMAN: So you'll give these reports sort of like an independent consultant, you'll say, "Hey"--

RANDLE: "Go see this kid, go see that kid," and I would break that child down, and say "This is why I think you should go see him." And we've been doing it.

REDMAN: And is it fun to see the success of these young men, then, coming up?

RANDLE: Yeah, but I've lost more than I've gotten into the professional game. I've lost more.

REDMAN: Do you think it's because of--I mean just how challenging the--I mean it seems in some since it's just such a crap shoot getting these kids into the league, but there's also, you know you have to have an eye for talent no doubt, to see which kids even have the potential for--

RANDLE: Well, they have potential. The point is getting them to go to school. We can't--you can't scout them, if they're not on the school ground, because they have to be eligible to play. If you're not eligible you can't play, so we can't see them. And in the little leagues they're not well coached, but the in high schools they're very well coached, and the college level. But these kids, "Baseball is slow," that's what they say, "It's too slow." Okay.

Redman: That's fascinating in light of your experiences. Now, it must be fun to see some of these young athletes coming up.

RANDLE: Yep, but we're losing a lot of them as well. The Army should be just--Army don't want them, and that's a problem, if the Army don't want them because of the discipline. But they will grow up if they were--

REDMAN: Given some of that discipline.

RANDLE: Yeah, because there's a person telling what you got to do. You got to do this, you got to do that; if you don't do this what happens is there's consequence. These kids don't have any; they just--

REDMAN: Do what they want to do. Well, once again I know we keep going because it's an interesting conversation, but I really appreciate you sitting down with me today. Thank you.