Tom Oishi | Interview 1 | December 12, 2002

GRAVES: So David wants you to introduce yourself again. Your name is.

OISHI: My name is Tom Oishi, O-I-S-H-I.

GRAVES: I was particularly interested in hearing more about your family, your parents and how they came to Richmond? Can you tell me about that?

OISHI: Now, since David was interested in it, I asked a lot of questions from my older brothers and my cousins. I am the youngest of the family of seven, and 00:01:00there's three Oishi brothers that came to the United States. The first one who came was roughly in 1895 or 1893 and I believe my father came in 1895, and then the third brother might have come in 1898 or 1899. The reason why the two other brothers was Oishis. The oldest one was Oishi. My father was second, his name was Oishi, but the third one is Sakai. The reason for that is, in the ancient 00:02:00days, the Sakai did not have no son, so at an early age--what they call Yoshi in Japan--maybe Mr. Sakai was only maybe fifteen or something and they figured they needed a son so they took the Sakai name. So, actually he's my real uncle. He should be. He's born in the Oishi family.

GRAVES: But families would use the name Sakai. Now I'm confused, you're--.

OISHI: The reason is, in Japan if you have no son and maybe the family has a 00:03:00little estate, they would like to have someone take the family name. Since the Oishis had four or five brothers, they gave the third child to Sakai, but actually he's an Oishi. Sakai is my real cousin. I think they do that in this country too. There's a lot of professional people who become lawyers and they want to keep their own name. Before they're married, maybe their name is Tanaka or something. Then they're married to a Hinoda or something, they keep their Tanaka name. But in Japan--I don't know if they have it in this country or not.

GRAVES: So it was a way of allowing the Sakai family to have a male, a man, to pass their possessions down to.

OISHI: Yes, yes, yes. More so if they have a little estate.

GRAVES: And, do you know what brought your father and his brothers to the United States, what they hoped to find?

OISHI: Well, the reason why they came, my grandfather, which I never saw--he might have passed on way before I was even born. He was an educator, Nikkei. He's a Samurai they called him. He comes from a Samurai family. And, he saw there was no future in his little village that they were living in and I guess he read up on America--a future in America, California especially. That's why in 00:05:00the 1890s--3 or something like this. The year is not exact, it might be two or three different--the pioneers came into California.

GRAVES: So he sent his sons to California--encouraged.

OISHI: Well, maybe he advised or he saw maybe a future in California rather than in Japan.

GRAVES: Where in Japan did they live, do you know?

OISHI: Sasayama.

GRAVES: Sosayama?

OISHI: Sasayama.

GRAVES: Sasayama.

OISHI: But, this is from Osaka. It's in the same ken as Kobe. Sasayama is--from Osaka, you go like you would go from here to Auburn or Placerville. It's in the 00:06:00foothills and there was a little bit of {inaudible) which they lived. And they started going into Osaka or Kobe to work, maybe oblige them to come here.

GRAVES: You said your grandfather was an educator. Do you know, did he teach at a local school or what?

OISHI: I guess he did. See that is a picture of the mon. The Oishi family mon. I guess you know what a mon is. A mon is a family--.

GRAVES: Crest.

OISHI: Yes. Just recently--I have no interest in mon before, until just recently. Naturally, when you get to a certain age, you know, you want to see 00:07:00where you come from--what your roots are. At an early age, you know you have other interests--becoming a real senior citizen, you know. (laughs) You would like to find out your roots. And my cousin passed away recently, a couple years ago. He was about ten years older than me. And he's the son of my oldest uncle--he's the first one that came. And he had this in his living room. And he says, "Tom, this is mon. I'll get you one," he says. [laughs] "This is the family roots--mon. You come from Samurai family." So I started showing interest. I told Mas, "You get me a mon like this," see. But, he was in good health and after that, a few months later he passed on. He went to Reno and had a stroke and that was his life. But he never got me the mon, but I went to the house and 00:08:00his wife gave me--showed me a picture of the mon, and I borrowed it and I went to a photo shop to get it done.

GRAVES: Looks good. So, how old was your father and his brothers when they came, would you say?

OISHI: Well, I think my father might have been about twenty-three years old.

GRAVES: And where did he arrive in the United States and how did he get to Richmond?

OISHI: He landed in Seattle, maybe there was no port in San Francisco--I don't know why. He landed in Seattle, and went to Alviso. I don't know, maybe he was someplace, maybe he was in Seattle doing housework, and domestic work. And then the two brothers got together and they started something up in the flower 00:09:00industry in Alviso. Alviso, you know where Alviso is?

GRAVES: Southern California?

OISHI: Hayward. Hayward, {inaudible} in that area. And then, his oldest brother was very aggressive. Now, he's a leader, and he was aggressive. Maybe my father just tagged along with him.

GRAVES: What was your uncle's name?

OISHI: Oishi. It was Oishi! (laughs)

GRAVES: Your father's first name was?

OISHI: {Seizo?}.

GRAVES: {Seizo?}.

OISHI: Yes.

GRAVES: And your uncle?

OISHI: Tokutaro--

GRAVES: So they came to Hayward area, Alviso, and started what kind of a flower business? What were they doing?

OISHI: I don't know what it was. I don't think it was carnations. Maybe it was 00:10:00outdoor flowers or something. And they had--the Oishis had a lot to do with the California Flower Market, you know on where--on Fifth Street. They were the original, you know, on the board and maybe they started that up.

GRAVES: Your father and uncle?

OISHI: They were one of the many pioneers.

GRAVES: Did they both come to Richmond?

OISHI: I think in the latter part of 1890, maybe 18--no, 1898, roughly around there. Then they came to Richmond. They went into flower business here.

GRAVES: So they, did they build the greenhouses?

OISHI: Yes, yes. They bought property. The reason why--they were able to do it was, there was a law in California, or maybe the United States, saying that 00:11:00Asian immigrants can not buy property. You have to be a citizen. Well, I think immigrants from Europe--German immigrants, Italian immigrants--they were able to buy property. So, they hired a lawyer and they bought the property and put the property under a child's name. Then, the first child was born and he might have been born in 1898 or something in that area. And they were able to buy property. 00:12:00And they put the property under the American citizen's name.

GRAVES: And was he your cousin or your older brother?

OISHI: No, my cousin.

GRAVES: Okay. So your uncle and your father started this nursery business together. Do you think they came to Richmond because there were other nurseries already, or?

OISHI: No, I think they were pioneers in Richmond. But they didn't start it together. I think my father was more or less under him and then eventually he bought his own place.

GRAVES: And what about your mother? When did she come to the United States and how did they meet?

OISHI: In (pauses) the year--I can't have the right exact year, in 19--1904 or 00:13:00something, my father went back to Japan and I guess maybe they have picture bride but the family might have known each other and they recommended my father to my mother. So they came over in 1893, no 19--1903, in that area, and they came directly to Richmond. I mean, my father had something established here already.

GRAVES: And what was her name?

OISHI: Riu.

GRAVES: Riu. Do you know her family name?

OISHI: Hirano.

GRAVES: Hirano. So how old was she when she came here, do you know?

OISHI: She must have been twenty-one, twenty-two years old. She had a little education in Japan too. Most immigrants did not have education, but she had a 00:14:00little education and my father had a little education in Japan too.

GRAVES: What does that mean? Like, up through the equivalent of high school, or?

OISHI: No, maybe a junior high, I don't know. He might have more, I'm not sure. But he was able to read the American papers, even in the latter years. He lived to be ninety-four years old. And he would wait for the paper to come, the American paper. He was keeping up with whatever that was going on.

GRAVES: So when she came, they were both in their twenties.

OISHI: No. One--I don't know what--. She might have been in her early twenties and I think my father was fifteen years older when he got married, so he was in 00:15:00his thirties, thirty-five maybe.

GRAVES: Did she work with him in the nursery?

OISHI: I think as soon as they arrived in the United States, she started having a family. She was not an agricultural--in Japan her background was not agricultural. There's a lot of families from Japan that came from farming area. They were used to work. They knew how to grow different crops. But my mother and father were not in that line. So it was kind of a disadvantage to them. But they had the business knowledge and {a little bit of} schooling.

GRAVES: So she started having children right away, you think. And you said there were how many children in the family?

OISHI: There's three brothers and four sisters, and I'm the youngest. My oldest 00:16:00living sister is ninety-two, ninety-three years old.

GRAVES: What are all their names?

OISHI: My father came to this country, "This is America, we can't have Japanese names." So, he says, "We will have to have two names," you know, which would match in the same--. My oldest sister was named Miti-michi in Japanese. My oldest brother is named Joe and I guess there's a Jo or something in Japanese language. And my next brother was named George, Joji in Japanese is the word. 00:17:00That's George's, see. And my--Amy is my next sister and her name is Amy, in Japanese Emiko. And my next sister is Hannah, Hannah in English and Hanako in Japanese. And my next sister's name is Lucy, Lucy in English and {Lushi?}, {Lushiko} in Japanese. My name is Tom in English and Tomu in Japanese or something. Since he was, you know, he was very proud of--every time someone was born in the family, he figures he's the expert with names, even the 00:18:00grandchildren's names.

GRAVES: Where do you think your father learned to read English? Did he learn any English in Japan?

OISHI: I always wondered if he learned in Japan, but I was told that in those days they didn't have any. I don't know. (laughs) But, he might have been doing busboy or schoolboy, and naturally, since he had a little education in Japan, he was able to pick it up.

GRAVES: When your mother started having children here, did she have them at home? Do you know anything about your births?

OISHI: What they have--. In the ancient days, I don't think they had--they had what they call in Japanese Sanbas{son}. Sanbas{son} is a midwife. Maybe you don't have no education or something. They have midwife and they would deliver 00:19:00the baby. But I don't think that it was hospitals, or maybe one little hospital in Richmond.

GRAVES: Right. So the midwife would come to the house.

OISHI: Yes, yes, yes. Maybe they have experience in that line. Maybe they had a little education too, in that line. Most child, I think in our family, was born at home.

GRAVES: So, by giving you two names, it seems like your father was interested in having you comfortable, or fit in with both cultures?

OISHI: Yes, yes. That was his idea. I guess his father told him, "This is a great country. There's a future there." Maybe he read--he would be able to read what's outside the world from Japan. Maybe a good future, the climate's good. So 00:20:00my father, since he married in the early 1900s, he never went back to Japan. Well, he was too busy raising the kids. He enjoyed this country.

GRAVES: How important was it to your parents that all you kids that you knew something about Japanese culture? You mention a Japanese language school. Can you talk about that?

OISHI: Well, I think our family was different than most Japanese. A lot of Japanese that was in the city, San Francisco, Berkeley, Oakland area, they were not able to buy property. They didn't have a home. They had to rent. So their future was very, you know, should we become an American citizen or should we go 00:21:00back to Japan? Maybe they're sending money to Japan. Maybe the kids would get to be a certain age and we better given them a good education, send them to school in Japan. Because, Kibei-Nisei, you heard about that? They're born in this country and they see no future, they can't buy nothing and a lot discrimination, so they would study in Japan and then come back before they become an adult.

GRAVES: But your family seems to have felt more confident about its future here.

OISHI: Yes, yes, yes, yes. That's why most of these families in Richmond--somehow they were in a corporation. The businesses were in a 00:22:00corporation and they borrowed a native American citizen child's name.

GRAVES: When you say, "they." "They" formed--.

OISHI: There was quite a few families here in Richmond, Japanese families.

GRAVES: And they joined together to do this?

OISHI: Not joined, maybe they had the same lawyer or something. And this lawyer, I believe they got us through the--. Maybe this lawyer in San Francisco was a kind man--Caucasian man--felt this was wrong, and he went out of his way to do this. Did a lot of areas in California, in the agricultural areas, some did it, some areas did not. So during the war, the name would be under Caucasian name and we come back, "This is not yours. Look, the title is mine." But actually, it's the Japanese who did a lot of, lawsuits on that.

GRAVES: So, tell me a little bit about the Japanese American families that were 00:23:00here in Richmond. How many do you remember and what do you remember about them?

OISHI: There was about twelve, twelve families, more or less in the nursery line--nursery or cut flowers.

GRAVES: So there was Oishi and Sakai. Other names?

OISHI: Well, I have that list here. I think we better. [laughs].

GRAVES: Oh, good.

OISHI: I think there might have been more.

GRAVES: Why don't you read them? Can you?

OISHI: {Nabeta, Honda, Oshima, Miyamoto, Maeda, Maida, Fukushima, Oishi, Sakai, Adachi, Ninomiya, Kawai, Fuji, and Katayanagi?} was in the flower business, Park 00:24:00Florist downtown.

GRAVES: Downtown Richmond?

OISHI: Yes. They were the original--the Katayanagi family owned the Park Florist, and then they ran it until the war years.

GRAVES: Downtown on Macdonald?

OISHI: Yes. Now it's run by Perata family. That's a big one of the better flower shops here in town. But for years, they built that up. They were on Sixteenth Street, I believe, before the war or maybe even after the war and then Perata moved it to Twentieth Street or something.

GRAVES: On Macdonald, near the--okay.

OISHI: Yes, yes, yes. And {Maguchi?} had a flower shop close to El Cerrito City 00:25:00Hall there for a long time.

GRAVES: Those are retail stores you mean? Or something.

OISHI: Yes, yes, yes.

GRAVES: But the rest were more in nursery?

OISHI: In growing different crops. Some were growing roses and carnations, half-and-half.

GRAVES: All greenhouse grown?

OISHI: Yes, yes.

GRAVES: And who built the greenhouses, do you know? Would they have built them themselves?

OISHI: I guess they hired carpenters.

GRAVES: Were they mostly around this neighborhood?

OISHI: Big part was here in Richmond. Richmond and El Cerrito. Do you know where the {Freemason's} Church is on Potrero and the freeway?

GRAVES: Yes.

OISHI: There were two nurseries there that are the Nabeta family and Honda 00:26:00family. And when the freeway came by, they took a portion of their place. And then they had the Kawai family in San Pablo. The Ninomiya family in San Pablo. And the Sugihara family in San Pablo.

GRAVES: So all these people were growing flowers.

OISHI: Yes.

GRAVES: Did everybody know each other?

OISHI: Yes, yes, yes.

GRAVES: Did you have, like, Obon together? Did you have different celebrations or festivals?

OISHI: No. (laughs). The trouble with this was in the ancient days, some were Buddhist, some was Christians. And maybe they all started off as Buddhists in Japan, but when they came here, some became Christians and some were Buddhists. 00:27:00So we didn't go to same church. Some, they had their own Buddhist church and the Buddhist people would take active in the Buddhist Obon and whenever they have bazaars.

GRAVES: Where was that church?

OISHI: Well, I think in Richmond--in Berkeley and some are members, even today, some are members of Oakland Buddhist Church. There's two Buddhist church in Berkeley. It seems like the ken in Japan is like a state, and Hiroshima ken is one church and Kyushu is south of Hiroshima, that little island. That's the 00:28:00other church. There's two churches, see. So whatever part of Japan their fathers come from, that's the church they go to.

GRAVES: Yes. And what about your family?

OISHI: Our family is, I guess we were originally Buddhist. But my father's thinking was, "Be honest, be sincere. Live a long, honest life. You don't have to be in church." That was his theory. So I guess my mother friend was {inaudible} Church. And they were just a small church. They didn't even have a building or anything. They used to rent a church here in Stege, few hours, and we went to Sunday School there, as a child, at a 00:29:00early change of five or six.

GRAVES: So they'd rent time in another Christian congregation's church?

OISHI: Yes.

GRAVES: Do you remember the street or would you be able to--where that church was?

OISHI: The church is no longer there. Between Potrero and Cutting Boulevard, it might have been, maybe about Thirtieth Street.

GRAVES: Did you have something you were going to ask?

WASHBURN: No, no. You said the Stege.

GRAVES: Yeah, Stege neighborhood.

OISHI: It was a Caucasian church but a few hours every Sunday, we went there.

GRAVES: Right. So your family didn't participate in Obon festivals, but you did 00:30:00go to language school.

OISHI: Yes.

GRAVES: Can you talk about that, and did all your siblings go?

OISHI: Well, where is that the picture? The picture I had here. This picture shows--this is the old language school. My older brother might have gone to this language school, and sisters, but I don't think they had it for too long of a time. I was not even born at this time, but we had another language school. We didn't call it language, we called it Japanese School. The nursery people were 00:31:00much more established and financially were much better off, so they put up a building at the corner of Forty-seventh Street and Wall Avenue. They had a lot, maybe fifty by a hundred, maybe it might have been about a hundred by a hundred. And the community nursery people--the few families that exist in Richmond--bought the property and put up this building that was being exterminated, and we had our Japanese School there.

GRAVES: What was it like going to school there? How often would you go and how many kids?

OISHI: I think it was only on Saturdays, I'm not sure--Saturday mornings.

GRAVES: Did you learn anything there besides how to speak Japanese?

OISHI: I think most Niseis had to speak Japanese because--in our family, my 00:32:00father was able to speak English and read English, but my mother was not able to read or write English, so we were forced to learn the Japanese language, which I think was to my advantage. From the age of one or two to five or six, I had to speak Japanese otherwise I couldn't communicate with my mother, so it was to my advantage.

GRAVES: Yes. So when you went to Japanese School, were you learning to write--to read and write in Japanese?

OISHI: Yes, yes, yes. But I didn't get too far. (laughs) I didn't get too far on that! But I was amazed--at the age of sixty-two or something, I went to Japan. I was getting into my senior years, ready to retire. I was anxious to know where my roots were, you know. But being born in this country--Japan and United States 00:33:00were on bad terms. War did not just break out in 1941, this was building up for ten years before that, gradually, gradually, gradually. So it was kind of shame to be a Japanese, and towards the end of my going to Japanese School, I was kind of ashamed to learn the Japanese language. I had to hide it; that's how I felt. Going to Richmond High--like if we were in San Francisco or Berkeley, Japanese all got together, they stuck together, but here in Richmond we were integrated. We'd see different nationalities: Portuguese, Greeks, Italians, Germans, Native 00:34:00Americans. So I felt, you know, I was just as good as the next man. But I don't think the others really felt that way.

GRAVES: Yeah, I read that--from the 1940 census--there were only about eighty-seven Japanese Americans in Contra Costa County. Eighty-seven, which would have meant they were all here in Richmond.

OISHI: Well, maybe--there was a lot of farming done and sharecropping in Contra Costa, maybe they weren't counted. They had a lot of farmers in the, maybe sugar beets or tomatoes or whatever, they would lease the land and farm. The figure may be true, but I thought there would be more.

WASHBURN: Is Brentwood in Contra Costa?

OISHI: Yes.

GRAVES: Yes.

WASHBURN: There are a lot of farms out in Brentwood.

GRAVES: Oh yeah.

OISHI: Yeah, Japanese farms.

GRAVES: Yeah. Did you help out in the nursery when you were growing up, and did 00:35:00your brothers and sisters?

OISHI: Yes, yes. One reason was that my father was not agriculture-man. He's the son of an educator. He had to have a nice suit, nice clothes, see. [laughs] He's a good talker. But he didn't know too much about farms. So, it was to our disadvantage. We had to work hard. We had to, even at an early age, not hard, but we had to help him.

GRAVES: What would you do?

OISHI: We did everything. We did everything. Whatever could be done. But a lot of Japanese who came to this country, they came from agricultural background. Maybe as far as the education--they didn't have--but they knew how to work. The 00:36:00wife and the husband worked hard, they knew what work was. So financially they were able to make pretty good. In our case, it was different. So it was to our advantage, a little hardship is good for a person. You can't buy hardship, you know.

WASHBURN: Well Tom, I don't exactly what goes into running a cut-flower business. At different times during the year, you'd have different duties, different jobs to do? Can you explain a little bit about, maybe, what you did in the summer compared to what you did in the fall?

GRAVES: Or spring?

WASHBURN: Or spring time? I mean, the tasks that you had to do?

OISHI: Well, in the ancient days, in the 1920s, 1930s, agriculture was not as 00:37:00advanced as what it is today. One of the bigger jobs of nursery work--the soil. You plant a carnation plant in the soil. We had raised benches--troughs--and we would put eight inches of soil in there. And we'd plant a crop, and there's a certain amount of disease that's left in the soil. So if we plant another new crop in there, even though the plants are disease-free, since the soil was contaminated, we would have a lot of {inaudible}. So, the biggest job in growing carnations was we would have wheel all the soil out, eight inches of soil, eight 00:38:00by would it be three feet wide, with a wheelbarrow. Wheel it all out. We had open land so we would get soil from the outside and bring that in. So the old soil, contaminated soil, goes out and the new soil comes in. And that was the biggest job of growing carnations.

GRAVES: Would you grow more than one crop a year?

OISHI: Carnations was good--in those days, it was good for one year period.

GRAVES: All colors? What colors?

OISHI: Yes, all colors. But the colors were--we did not invent the colors, we would buy the plant. There are people in the business that just--to make a different color.

GRAVES: Where'd you buy the plants from, do you know?

OISHI: Well, in the early days or before the war, we would buy the 00:39:00plants--different colors--and we would propagate them ourselves. We'd get the slips and put them in sand and bring them up.

WASHBURN: Take cuttings.

OISHI: Yes, with cuttings. So we would have to make cuttings every year, for the first part of the year. I think the cuttings were taken in January to maybe March something.

GRAVES: And you and your brothers and sisters would do that job too?

OISHI: Yes, yes. We had to help in that line.

GRAVES: So the girls worked in the nursery too?

OISHI: Well, they had helped, let's put it that way.

GRAVES: Did they do different jobs?

OISHI: Well maybe they helped putting cuttings in or they helped men where to put this, taking the slips out--slips to put into the cutting next.

GRAVES: Yes. So your mom did help.

OISHI: Yes, yes, yes, yes.

GRAVES: So everybody worked together. Were there people who worked there, at the nursery?

OISHI: Oh I think that we had a hired hand.

GRAVES: Just one or two? Or a lot of them?

OISHI: Yes. Well, in the summer months, we would have to hire men to bring the soil in and bring the soil out.

GRAVES: And where would they come from?

OISHI: Well, neighborhood. Portuguese and Italian immigrants, and German immigrants.

GRAVES: How many greenhouses?

OISHI: It was very small, square-foot wise. I'm just guessing, maybe thirty, forty thousand square feet.

GRAVES: That sounds like a lot to me. That was one greenhouse?

OISHI: No, no, the total amount.

GRAVES: And was your nursery right next to others? Or were they scattered?

OISHI: Well, the whole neighborhood. It was all nurseries from the Sakai nursery to San Pablo Avenue. It was all nurseries.

GRAVES: And the Sakai nursery was how far west?

OISHI: It was across the street from us.

GRAVES: So around Forty-fifth?

OISHI: Yes, yes. It starts there. And the freeway came by, and they bought the nurseries out, some of the nurseries out.

GRAVES: But not your family?

OISHI: They took a little portion of ours. But our nursery got a little bigger. They would buy the southern end of our nursery, and there would be an acre left or two acres left. And the {inaudible} freeway is built. And they put up for 00:42:00auction--they put up for bid--and we would buy back. And then in the north side of ours, there would be another couple of acres and we would buy it back. That's why instead of having a few acres, we would end up with about seven acres.

GRAVES: So you lost some to the freeway, but then you were able to assemble other--.

OISHI: No, we lost a very small portion, just a little corner. Might have been, I don't know, might have been not even a hundred square feet, maybe a thousand square feet.

GRAVES: What about your house? The house that you grew up in, can you tell me about it?

OISHI: The house was--. Oh, I remember, the house that we are living in now, but that did not have no kitchen. We had a little place where we had a kitchen and 00:43:00dining room.

GRAVES: So the kitchen and dining room were a separate building?

OISHI: From the living quarters, yes.

GRAVES: But close, right behind?

OISHI: Yes, yes, yes.

GRAVES: And those were right near the green yard, the greenhouses?

OISHI: Yes. In ancient days, in my early childhood, they didn't have refrigeration, they didn't have TV, they didn't have radio. There was a crystal radio, what the heck is it called? My brother used to --. Crystal set! And my brother would go to high school, and maybe he'd learn how to make a crystal set, and that was amazing to us. And then maybe when I was six, seven years old, radio started coming on, refrigeration came out. We used to have iceman bring 00:44:00ice to us. No gas, we were burning oil or something else. We didn't have no gas.

GRAVES: How many bedrooms in the house?

OISHI: There was--I think a big house, it was all bedrooms.

GRAVES: No living room?

OISHI: No, living room was--we had another building where the living room is, our family was so big.

GRAVES: So there were three buildings? When we go walk--.

OISHI: The building is no longer there. The other buildings were no longer--.

WASHBURN: Okay. You're not talking about the house that's there now.

OISHI: I'm talking that was our living quarters.

WASHBURN: The house there was your living quarters.

OISHI: Yes.

GRAVES: Meaning the bedrooms.

OISHI: Yes. We did not have no kitchen there, but latter on, I don't know, after 00:45:00the war, sixties,'65 or something, we added on to that house. We had a nice bigger room there, and a kitchen there.

GRAVES: So your mom cooked in a separate building and then, did you eat in that building too? Is that where you ate?

OISHI: Yes, yes, yes.

GRAVES: What do you remember eating? What did you like that she cooked?

OISHI: Well, since she's Japanese, we ate nothing but Japanese food. Rice, rice. And I think of Japanese food--. You know, at my age, diet is very important. If you eat the wrong thing, cholesterol, diabetes, you know your leg would swell, your {inaudible} reading would get up there, your blood pressure go up there. 00:46:00(laughs) So I found out, after I became sixty-five, eating is very important. What you eat is very important. You buy all these cereals, and this packaged food has a lot of sodium; it'll kill a man.

GRAVES: Yeah. So what did your mom feed you?

OISHI: Rice and Japanese food. I think there used to be a grocery man that used to come around and he would have Japanese food in a truck. He would bring us tofu. He would bring shoyu, you know. (laughs) He would sell you rice.

GRAVES: Fish?

OISHI: And fish, too. Oh, fish was plentiful. Fish was plentiful. The bay was all full of fish and crabs. Italian fishermen would catch over the limit, and stuff. They would come around and sell you fish. And we could go out, out in the 00:47:00wharf and catch crab--dungeness of crab--here in Richmond, Point Richmond. This is no lie.

GRAVES: Did you grow any of your own vegetables or fruit?

OISHI: Yes, yes.

GRAVES: What'd you grow?

OISHI: We grew everything. We grew our vegetables and beans and beets and carrots and daikon. I guess you know what daikon is. You know, Japanese like daikon for tsukemono. You know, so we grew a lot of daikon too and she would pickle it.

GRAVES: Was that your mom's garden?

OISHI: No, I think my mom would more or less supervise.

GRAVES: But you kids did the work?

OISHI: Yes, yes, yes. We have Mexican immigrants from Mexico, from Guadalajara--when you go towards Sierra Madre, it's a {inaudible} over there. It 00:48:00might be a good area, and they live off the land. They live on whatever that grows--they live off. Beans and corn, you know, sheep. Chiva is a goat, you know. Maybe chiva, maybe it's no good for cows or something. (laughs) They live off the land.

GRAVES: And you're saying you guys did that?

OISHI: Yeah, yeah, more or less. But these fellows here are healthy, they're hardworking, they're in good shape. They don't go to dentist. They don't have to go to the doctor. They eat corn and beans.

WASHBURN: Tom, you mentioned that there are other Mexican immigrants who worked in the lettuce fields in north Richmond. Did you guys have any Mexican folks who worked for you in your greenhouse or in your garden or anything?

OISHI: No, we did not use Mexicans. There weren't too many Mexicans here in 00:49:00Richmond. I think the Santa Fe tracks used a lot of Mexicans as--maintaining the tracks.

WASHBURN: So you're not talking about Mexican folks in Mexico helped you guys in your garden, you're just comparing your life.

OISHI: No, no.

GRAVES: Doing a parallel.

OISHI: After the war, we used a lot of Mexican help, but before the war we did not.

GRAVES: I know in places like San Francisco, there would have been bathhouses that Japanese American families went to. Did you all go to any bathhouse?

OISHI: No, we had our own bath.

GRAVES: You did?

OISHI: We had our own bath. I know the bath that we had was--maybe three or four 00:50:00foot long and maybe two foot wide. It's made with redwood which is maybe two feet high, and underneath, they put a copper plate--copper metal down there. And underneath there we'd burn fire, and heat our bath--how we heat our water. It was very Japanese. You know the heat is always down there, you burn wood, and that was our duty as a child, my duty as a child to make baths everyday.

GRAVES: Everyday?

OISHI: Yes and most families here in Richmond have baths, their own baths.

GRAVES: Would that be in a separate structure?

OISHI: Yes, yes.

GRAVES: It's called a foru--?

OISHI: Furo.

GRAVES: Furo.

OISHI: Furo, yes.

GRAVES: So that was also at your house? You had a lot of little buildings around.

OISHI: Yes, yes, yes. The furo naturally--you know, you burn your fire, you can't have it next to another building. We had two on our property here.

GRAVES: So tell me about the bathing. That would be at the end of the day?

OISHI: Yes, yes. The custom of a bathe, you would think it would be unsanitary. But they have rulings, you know. Before you bathe, you wash yourself real good. So not only the bath there, you would have a little section where could wash yourself, you wash yourself and take all the soap off, and then you go in. You have to respect the--another party's going to use it.

GRAVES: And your parents and your siblings would all take turns, or go together?

OISHI: No, we would all take turns.

GRAVES: One by one.

OISHI: Well, maybe the sisters would all take together.

GRAVES: And the boys--.

OISHI: And the boys would take together.

GRAVES: And you'd be in charge of the fire?

OISHI: No, in days. Maybe Joe was in his days, and George was in his days, see.

GRAVES: Did you enjoy that? The bathing?

OISHI: Yes. I think a bath is--it comes up to your neck--your water is maybe two feet deep, and where the bath is only maybe a foot deep or something and the bath is made out of cast iron. With cast iron, put hot water in there, cast iron eats up half of the heat. If you get fiberglass something, you lose all of the heat in the fiberglass. But this is a wooden tub, and it always has a fire underneath there. And the wood we'd get from scrap wood around the nursery.

WASHBURN: Did your dad construct it? Do you remember who--?

OISHI: No, I guess my dad was not too handy that way. (laughs) He was more or less, you know, maybe he was a playboy or something. His dad maybe brought him up very gently and bought him a nice suit, and nice clothing and everything. (laughs)

GRAVES: So there were probably some Japanese carpenters around.

OISHI: Oh yes. There's all kinds of people, Japanese, and they all come from different backgrounds from Japan. The persons who are Japanese came from Japan, they came farmland with very little education. They come to this country, they work hard. They did real good. But like my dad, you know--. But in the long run, he came out ahead, you know. He was able to borrow money, talk about money, give 00:54:00a guy a good line. And you can't pay, you give them a sad story and they go for it. (laughs). He said he thought he as much psychology. He would out think the other man. I used to laugh. (laughing)

GRAVES: From what I've read, a lot of people who came from different areas of Japan would join associations, kenjinkai?

OISHI: Yes, yes, yes.

GRAVES: Were your parents involved with one of those?

OISHI: {Hiyokoken?} is Kobe. Kobe is {Hiyokoken?}. Naturally, from Kobe area, they didn't have to come to this country to make a living. I think most of the Japanese was maybe in the Wakayama ken or Fukuoka or Yamaguchi. Those three are most--big part of the Japanese come from {Hiyokoken}. And I think the Wakayama 00:55:00is more or less agricultural something. I know people came to this country and did real well in this country.

GRAVES: But so your parents weren't part of one of those associations?

OISHI: No. There was no {Yogo?} ken association here.

GRAVES: What about the Japanese American Citizens' League? That was started in the '30s, wasn't it?

OISHI: Yes, yes, yes.

GRAVES: Was your dad active?

OISHI: No, my dad wasn't because he wasn't an American citizen. My brother was kind of active in that, at an early age, Joe.

GRAVES: He was the oldest, right?

OISHI: Well, he's ten years older than I am.

GRAVES: Do you remember, where did they meet? What Joe thought of it? Did he talk about it?

OISHI: Yes, he was active. Joe was more or less the older Niseis. Joe, when the 00:56:00war work broke, maybe Joe was about thirty years old. There weren't too many Niseis in their forties. I think the early ones who came, like my uncle's son, Ben, who was about, I don't know, twenty-three, twenty-five years older than me. He came to this country, and they were born here. He says he went to Stege School. He was born in 1899 or 1898, that's when he was born. And this is where he died, he was telling me. He attended school at Stege School, grammar school. I was amazed. (laughs) At that time, the parents did not establish. Maybe there 00:57:00in Japan, they could get a good education. So they send Ben, my oldest cousin, to Japan from age six or something. He was age six years old, born here in this country--went to Japan, graduated college in Japan.

GRAVES: So he did a little bit of school at Stege and then they sent him back to Japan to finish. What about you? We haven't really talked yet about your school years here in Richmond. You went to--.

WASHBURN: We should change that tape.

GRAVES: Let's get back to you, okay? [Laughs] So, Tom, can you tell us about the 00:58:00different schools you went to? Start with your grammar school, and what it was like--what you remember?

OISHI: I went to Pullman School. I started kindergarten, all the way through sixth grade. At Pullman School, maybe three classes in one room or something. Maybe there's six grades so maybe they had three classes, first and second grade in one room. You know, there weren't enough students.

GRAVES: And what do you remember about the other students? Were there other Japanese American kids?

OISHI: No, I think Ruby, Ruby Sakai, my cousin, was the only Japanese that was 00:59:00in our class, our grade. But maybe my sister was in a higher grade. There might have been others here too. Part of Richmond was nurseries--a lot of them went to Stege School for some reason, and then we went to Pullman School.

GRAVES: Did that just have to do with the district, were you outside or--?

OISHI: I don't know why it was that way. I think Stege was a bigger school. Maybe Stege, for first grade, they would have one class. But Pullman was very small.

GRAVES: Did you walk to school?

OISHI: Yes.

GRAVES: With your siblings?

OISHI: Yes.

GRAVES: And who were the other kids in class?

OISHI: One of the famous, I'm proud of, is Bruno Banducci's. I don't know if you heard of him or not. The Banducci family immigrated from Italy and maybe there 01:00:00was quite a few brothers that came--they all had children. They were pretty good athletes. And Bruno, I believe, was born in Italy and came here, I didn't know, came here as a young child. So he was not an American citizen, I was told later on. I went to school all the way through with Bruno. He went to Richmond High. He was on the football team. I guess he was a pretty bright kid, he got a scholarship from Stanford. He played on the Stanford-Rose Bowl Team. I think in 1941 Stanford went to Rose Bowl. And Stanford plays against Cal in Berkeley, I went to see him play. I was proud [laughs] of Bruno. And then he became a pro 01:01:00football player, San Francisco '49ers. He was a running guard and a main persons to--when Frankie Alberts was coach. This is when the '49ers just started off in San Francisco in 1956.

GRAVES: At Pullman, now if you'd been mostly speaking Japanese at home, what was it like to start kindergarten?

OISHI: No, I was able to speak English because I had older brothers and sisters. I was the youngest of the seven kids.

GRAVES: So that wasn't--?

OISHI: No, no, that was no problem.

GRAVES: Were there other kids who didn't speak English? Do you remember?

OISHI: No. I think most of the kids was older--no, they were younger than these. These older brothers and sisters, they would've speak a little English language.

GRAVES: But a lot of immigrant families?

OISHI: Yes, yes.

GRAVES: Do you remember your teachers at all?

OISHI: Hunn. I don't know if you know the Hunn family or not. They were 01:02:00educators. Their father was a teacher, and I think the sons became teachers. They had aunties and uncles in the Richmond School District. She was my principal, I know.

GRAVES: How do you spell Hunn?

OISHI: H-U-N-N.

GRAVES: So she was the principal at Pullman?

OISHI: Yes.

GRAVES: Do you remember anything about her?

OISHI: I know she had brothers that was teaching junior high, maybe in high school too.

GRAVES: Did you like school? What did you think of school?

OISHI: I liked sports in school. [laughs] I wasn't much of a scholar, let's put it that way.

GRAVES: So what kind of sporty things did you do in grade school?

OISHI: Well, when we were going to school, there were the Santa Fe tracks here, 01:03:00remember? On the other side, north of Santa Fe tracks, the upper class lived. South of Santa Fe tracks, the immigrants lived. So most of my classmates was sons of immigrants: German, Portuguese, Greek, Italian, Czechoslovakian, and Japanese. No Chinese though.

GRAVES: They were up in the El Cerrito hills.

OISHI: No, no, they came in later. I think this {Chung Mea} home came in when I was more or less in junior high. The home was not built then. I don't like they were orphans. Maybe they were well-to-do families or something, and they'd send their kids there.

GRAVES: But so kids from immigrant families played together?

OISHI: More or less, more or less. But when we got to high school, you know, it 01:04:00was different--from all Richmond. If your parents worked for Standard Oil, oh, you were a big shot. [laughs]. If your folks worked for Ford Motor Company, you know--. But if you worked for Pullman, Pullman Shop, you heard of Pullman Shop, and Certainteed. There weren't too many industries here in Richmond.

GRAVES: Wasn't Rheem around?

OISHI: Yes, Rheem was around too.

GRAVES: And Stauffer Chemical?

OISHI: Stauffer Chemical, yes.

GRAVES: And California Capworks?

OISHI: Yes, yes. Oh, you know a lot of them.

GRAVES: Well, I've been looking at maps.

WASHBURN: What about International Harvester?

GRAVES: Yes, I've seen International Harvester on the map.

OISHI: Might have come in later. But the old one is the Pullman Shop. Pullman Shop and Standard, and Ford came in a little bit late.

WASHBURN: American Radiator.

OISHI: Yeah, American Radiator.

WASHBURN: So how would you know whose parents worked for which industries?

OISHI: [Laughs]. Well, they all say, you know.

GRAVES: And this was in high school?

OISHI: Yeah, this was in high school and junior high.

GRAVES: So you went to Pullman, and on Saturdays you were going to Japanese School.

OISHI: Yes, yes.

GRAVES: I had friends who, I mean this was obviously a couple of generations later, but the girls in the Japanese American families that I grew up with often took an instrument class. They had to play that--what's it called? It starts with a K.

OISHI: Oh yeah, yes. Something like a violin, but a big one. Maybe my teacher had no interest in music, I don't know. [laughs].

GRAVES: So it was just reading and writing?

OISHI: I think whatever teacher's interest is, is what she does. At the early part when I was going to Japanese School, we had a fellow teacher and he had an interest in kendo. You know what kendo is?

GRAVES: Martial arts?

OISHI: You put on a helmet and you have a stick. He had interest in that and he would bring equipment, and we'd {inaudible}. But he was only there for a short time, maybe a couple of years. So whatever the teacher has interest in is what we learned.

GRAVES: So the teachers would sort of come and go?

OISHI: No, I think we had two teachers in my days or three teachers in my days.

GRAVES: So you went from Pullman to--?

OISHI: Longfellow.

GRAVES: Longfellow. Was that also a small junior high?

OISHI: I believe in Richmond we might have had two junior highs: Longfellow--

GRAVES: {Harry Ells?}?.

WASHBURN: Roosevelt. Roosevelt and Longfellow.

OISHI: Yes. {Harry Ells?} came in later.

GRAVES: Oh, okay. So that would have been bigger than Pullman?

OISHI: Oh, yes. Longfellow might have taken four or five grammar schools.

GRAVES: What do you remember about that?

OISHI: It was a lot of fun, I felt. [laughs].

WASHBURN: There were more Japanese students who went to Longfellow?

OISHI: Yes, because the Japanese who were going to Stege School, there were quite a few Japanese that were going to Stege School. And Pullman School--we all 01:08:00went to Longfellow.

GRAVES: And these would have been kids you knew?

OISHI: Yes, yes, yes. Some of the Richmond nursery people went to Stege School. I don't know why they went to Stege School. Maybe the Pullman School just opened or something. Maybe their sisters and older brothers didn't go to Pullman School--went to Stege School--so their younger brother went over there. I'm not sure what the deal was.

WASHBURN: What do you remember about doing at lunch? Did you and your friends or relatives get together during lunch and have lunch together?

OISHI: No. There weren't too many Japanese so we ate among our friends, whether it be Portuguese or Italian. It was mostly Italians, Greeks and Germans. I remember Bruno. My mother said, "Make sure you show the seeds of the grape, 01:09:00boy," you know?

GRAVES: What?

OISHI: Seeds of a grape. Oh, Bruno, he eats everything! [Laughs]. This guy literally eats everything! I was taught not to eat that thing! [Laughs]. I still remember that.

WASHBURN: What food did you take to school for lunch?

OISHI: Sandwich. We didn't bring Japanese food to lunch--to the school.

WASHBURN: Why not?

OISHI: Well, we just didn't.

GRAVES: Did your mom pack your lunch?

OISHI: Well, maybe my sister just--. In my case, I had a lot of sisters and they were, in my days, they were helpful. And they would cook, and they made pies and cakes and make the dinner and stuff.

GRAVES: Did they do the laundry too, your sisters?

OISHI: Maybe they helped. They all had their chores. You come up with a big family, we all have to cooperate. I don't know how big your family was when you were growing up? But, you know, even though you don't have material things, you 01:10:00have a lot of sisters and brothers and you don't need material stuff. I didn't have bicycle. I didn't have tricycles, you know. While other kids were well to do, they had bicycles and tricycles, but there were only one or two in the family. Maybe we enjoyed our childhood much more than they did. They would have a nice Buick in their car. [laughs]. We would have an old car, see.

GRAVES: Did your family always have cars when you were growing up?

OISHI: Yes, I remember the Model T days. My father was not able to drive. But he was much older than most of the Issei, so he was not able to drive. So when my brother became a certain age he had the Model T Ford, and then we went to a Model A car. I still remember the Model T Fords, had to crank them in--. 01:11:00[laughs] It's beyond your days.

GRAVES: So, there you were going to Longfellow with all of these kids from other backgrounds, were you mostly hanging out with boys or did boys and girls hang out together?

OISHI: Well, if you wanted to hang around girls, you could. You know, it wasn't like a Catholic school--all girls. Whoever's there, is it. If you are classified as a brainy kid, first division, second division, third division, fourth division, see. So you go into junior high and high school with your division. I don't know, maybe that's how it is, is it that way today?

GRAVES: Not so overtly. You mean the school would assign you to a sort of a category?

OISHI: Yes.

GRAVES: Based on how you did in the academic side of things?

OISHI: Yes, from grammar school, maybe they would classify you. Is it that way now?

GRAVES: Not really.

OISHI: It must be.

GRAVES: Well, they test you.

OISHI: They test you but if you're college prep course and another fellow is a shop course, see.

GRAVES: Yeah, they kind of do that at high school.

OISHI: And then if you're a college prep course--college prep you qualify for university. They give you French or Algebra or Spanish, while the other students do not get that.

WASHBURN: No, they don't do that so much. You're talking about some of the students used to study more and other students used to go on more vocational kind of training? No, no they don't do that so much--not in junior high at least.

OISHI: I think that's where they start, here.

GRAVES: When you were going to school, they started that in junior high?

OISHI: The I.Q. of the student, they're not all the same. Some students are much more capable of becoming a doctor, some are going to become a garbage man. So why would a garbage man--he's not qualified to take French and Algebra and Spanish and those courses.

WASHBURN: Yeah, but when everybody's young, everybody has the ability to learn at the same rate. What track were you on?

OISHI: I was in the middle. You know, I wasn't no brain, let's put it that way. I was far from a brain.

GRAVES: So, what did that mean about the classes you took? Did you take other languages?

OISHI: Yeah, I took some but I wasn't the top student, let's put it that way.

GRAVES: What about your sisters and brothers, how did they do in school?

OISHI: Oh, they were average. Yeah, but the top students like March Fong Yu, my cousin Ruby, they were on top of the class. They took Algebra and French and all the foreign languages, everything. I talked to Sam--my oldest living cousin--is about thirteen years older than me. His oldest brother went to Richmond High. His oldest brother might have been, if he were living, would be ninety-six or something. He attended Richmond High. And he took a college prep course. Soon as he graduated, the University of California accepted him, see. But his cousin did 01:15:00not take all the college prep courses. They didn't have no junior college so he had to go to school one year more at Richmond High to make up for the course that he didn't take.

GRAVES: Which cousin is this?

OISHI: My oldest uncle.

GRAVES: Ben?

OISHI: No, Ben's younger brother.

GRAVES: So, at Richmond High, did you do sports?

OISHI: Well, I had to kind of help out, certain times of year at home. But I used to enjoy badminton, tennis, archery, and I thought I was a pretty good football player. I just thought, but maybe I wasn't as good as I thought.

WASHBURN: But you told me the first time that we met about a basketball league.

OISHI: Yeah, yeah.

WASHBURN: Can you tell us again about--what was it called? It was a Japanese basketball league, right?

OISHI: Yes, yes.

WASHBURN: Was this when you were in high school?

OISHI: Yes.

WASHBURN: And you participated in that league?

OISHI: Yes.

WASHBURN: So tell me about it. Donna may not know about this. Can you describe it a little bit?

OISHI: Well, here in Richmond, we integrated with all nationalities. Berkeley, maybe all Japanese was stuck in one corner. Berkeley, the parents, maybe they weren't educated or something, they need to form a corporation. They could've got a lawyer and if they'd have a child, buy a house and put it in the child's name. They didn't do that in San Francisco either. So they were mostly doing 01:17:00domestic work and garden work.

GRAVES: And their kids had these teams?

OISHI: No, no and then we felt--my brother Joe and the head of the recreation department in the City of Richmond was good friends. I think when he was in high school, he played basketball. Major Hill was his name, well known. Maj. Hill, old-time Richmond. He's one of the--. I don't know if you heard about him or not.

GRAVES: He was the head of the city recreation department?

OISHI: I believe he might have been a school coach and then became the head of the recreation department. Maybe Maj. Hill felt {inaudible}. So he'd lend us as a gym--the Richmond High Gym. I remember, it was a brand new gym, beautiful gym, 01:18:00hardwood floors, it was beautiful. It was a modern gym in those days. I don't know when that thing was built. And every Saturday, he would lend us the gym, see. And Joe would have to maintain--that you didn't damage it. He keeps it in good shape or cleans it up when he leaves. And we had a beautiful gym, and Berkeley, they didn't have much of a gym. They would have to play basketball in a yard, playground. Maybe they couldn't get the gym--Berkeley High Gym. San Francisco, the same. San Francisco, they had to use the YMCA Gym. You know something about the YMCA? So the other cities were not as kind to their Japanese immigrants families as Richmond was, we felt. I felt anyway. So we were more or less, more integrated with the city or people that lived there.

GRAVES: So you guys, the sons of the nursery growers here in Richmond, had a team?

OISHI: We had a team, but we didn't have too many people to pick from. [laughs]. Whoever's a boy, they had to play, to make up a total of ten players, or eight players. You need five to play.

GRAVES: So were you any good?

OISHI: We weren't too good, let's put it that way. We did our best, but we weren't too good. We didn't have much of a {inaudible}.

WASHBURN: So, on Saturdays, tell me about how you guys would get together and play games. Who would you play and where would you play?

OISHI: In Richmond, there were Portuguese. In San Pablo, there were a lot of Portuguese families. And there was a fellow who took an active part in the 01:20:00Portuguese youth. The name may come up, for a long time he did a lot for the youths of--maybe he was Caucasian. And we would play against them. But they had a much bigger choice. We only had a few families to choose from. Anybody who was a boy, had to be a member of the team! [laughs]. We would take a bad beating from most teams.

GRAVES: Would you play, like the Berkeley?

OISHI: Yes, yes. We would the Berkeley, we would play Oakland, we would play San Francisco. And we used to go to Sebastopol to play. We used to go to Fairfield, Gilroy, Stockton.

GRAVES: Did you have a name?

OISHI: Richmond Kongo. Well, I don't know, I guess in Japanese Kongo means something. One of the Isseis sort of felt that it was a good name for our team.

WASHBURN: So why did you guys organize basketball teams and not, say, baseball 01:21:00teams or something else?

OISHI: Well, baseball team, it takes uniforms. Takes a lot of money to play baseball.

GRAVES: And, was there a basketball team at the school?

OISHI: Yes.

GRAVES: But you guys were different?

OISHI: Yes, we were different. But some of them, like Joe, played on the high school basketball team. And there were other fellows who was good or had time--they played on the high school basketball team or baseball team.

GRAVES: But there was this Japanese American team and a Portuguese team. Was there an Italian team?

OISHI: No. Well, maybe there was, but we didn't play against them.

GRAVES: What do you remember about--you've mentioned all these different kinds 01:22:00of people who were here in Richmond, and you mentioned Native Americans. What do you know about Native Americans who lived here in Richmond?

OISHI: Well, there's no thing, come down to think of it. There's no native--the only native American is Indian.

GRAVES: Right.

OISHI: All the others immigrated from England or wherever they came from.

GRAVES: Right.

OISHI: But they say they're native, but actually they're not native. The only native is the Indians.

GRAVES: Right and there were Indians here in Richmond, right?

OISHI: No. I know the Indians--I remember, when going to grammar school, Pullman Reservation Indians would come and put on the uniform, you know, the feathers and everything, and they would dance for us. They would put on a good show. I don't know if they do that now or not.

GRAVES: Which Indians would come?

OISHI: I don't know, some tribe or something.

GRAVES: When you were in grade school?

OISHI: Yes. They would put on a show for us. Do they do that today?

GRAVES: No, but you can go to--.

OISHI: I know in Pullman School, you know, we read about Indians. You read about them. And maybe the teacher was very kind, maybe she had connections. She would get some Indian from a certain tribe to come.

GRAVES: Because, see, we've been reading about these people from New Mexico, the Pueblo tribes, who lived out by the railroads on, near Garrard.

OISHI: Oh, maybe.

GRAVES: But you weren't aware of them?

OISHI: No, just like the casino up there. Cache Creek. [Laughs]. They using the Indian name.

GRAVES: Yes. But you knew Portuguese kids, Italian kids? Did you perceive them as different, or their families as different, or they had different customs?

OISHI: No. They all had different diets. They all had different diets. They all was different. Like, our neighborhood, there was the Italian family. They had 01:24:00cows, two-three cows. Richmond was very, you know, like a country. Hay fields and open land. They have cows and it's not their property, they would stake their cows out there and eat the grass, and milk the cows and people have goats. So we used to buy all our milk from an Italian family, Johnnie {Gilletti?}. You know Johnny {Gilletti?} has that {Lib's?} Hamburger in Richmond, in El Cerrito? You know, Johnny just lived over here, in our neighborhood. And he was about my brother's age and at an early age he would have to milk the cow, feed the cow before he goes to school. Summertime, you know, go out in the fields and cut the 01:25:00hay by hand. [Laughs]. Cut the hay by hand!

GRAVES: And one of you guys would go over there and buy the milk?

OISHI: No, he would deliver. Johnny would deliver to us. Johnny did real good in nursery, plant business.

GRAVES: Were there particular stores your mom or dad would go to buy other kinds of food, or rice? Where would you guys shop?

OISHI: No, no, no, this grocery man used to come around and sell us different Japanese food.

GRAVES: Everything, really. When you did need to go to a store to buy something, where would you go, in Richmond? Like for tools, or clothing, or?

OISHI: We had our--I think, {CC's?} Dry Goods Store was one of them. You know Atlas Bait? Atlas Bait in El Cerrito?

GRAVES: Alice Baitin?

OISHI: Atlas.

GRAVES: Atlas.

OISHI: Across the street.

GRAVES: Atlas and CC's--?

WASHBURN: Atlas Bait and Tackle?

OISHI: Yes, across the street was {CC's?} family--Italian family--had a dry goods store there.

GRAVES: On San Pablo.

OISHI: Yes. And there used to be a Moore's Drug. Mr. Moore had a pharmacist. He was a pharmacist. He had a drug store. We used to buy stuff there.

GRAVES: On San Pablo?

OISHI: Yes.

GRAVES: So you guys would mostly shop on San Pablo?

OISHI: Yes, yes.

GRAVES: What about Macdonald Avenue, what do you remember about it?

OISHI: Oh, yeah, it was good before the redevelopment came by in 1960, I believe. I think they did more harm than good. This is my opinion. It was a pretty good downtown. I guess you heard about it.

GRAVES: Yeah.

OISHI: The Winter Building, there were a lot good merchants there.

GRAVES: But you mostly remember that after the war. Before the war did your family ever shop on Macdonald?

OISHI: Yes, yes, yes. I'm talking about before the war. And Park Florist was there.

GRAVES: Any other places you remember, were there any--?

OISHI: The Chinese Dollar Store, JC Penney was there.

WASHBURN: You know, when you were a kid, for entertainment, would you guys go to movies nearby?

OISHI: Yes, I think they had a movie in downtown Richmond. And we would go into--when we got our automobile, you know we got a, I think, a 1936 or something. It was the first real good automobile we had. We had a Model-T Ford before that and we would go into San Francisco and Oakland.

GRAVES: Your brothers would drive you?

OISHI: Yes, yes.

GRAVES: What would you guys do there?

OISHI: We'd go to movies or we'd go to play basketball.

GRAVES: Would you be going to Japan Town in San Francisco?

OISHI: Japan Town was not there before the war.

GRAVES: In San Francisco?

OISHI: Oh yeah, maybe the new Japan Town--there was a Japan Town there, yes.

GRAVES: But there was the Y, and there were restaurants.

OISHI: Yes, yes, we used to go to the Y and play basketball there.

GRAVES: Were you interested in music?

OISHI: No.

GRAVES: But you guys listened to the radio?

OISHI: Oh yes, but the radio I don't think came until, in fact, until I was in junior high, I'm not sure. I remember my neighbor, Fukushima family--the Fukushima family father was Fukuoka, see, and he was a hardworking man. Not hard, he was a smart man, and very clever. And he could grow plants, and he 01:29:00knows just when to water, when not to water, and money came easy to him. [Laughs].

GRAVES: Fukushima.

OISHI: Fukushima. He was our neighbor, see. His wife was a schoolteacher, she didn't work too much or something and he would hire someone. Money came--he always had a new Buick in his car. [Laughs].

WASHBURN: Were you going to say, did he have one of the first radios?

OISHI: Yeah, he had the first. When I was a little kid, his son and me were about the same age and he used to come--you know, maybe his nursery was underneath the freeway today. We were close. He'd come two, three times a day, see. We used to play together. He'd buy a radio and we'd sit--Amos and Andy are going to come on at a certain time. Radio won't be on at all hours. You know, at 01:30:00certain hours Amos and Andy come on and maybe there'll be another program. So we'd go over there, sit by the radio and listen to Amos and Andy. [Laughs].

GRAVES: You and your friend.

OISHI: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

GRAVES: What other shows did you like? Amos and Andy, and?

OISHI: I don't think there were too many shows on the radio. Maybe at certain hours, the radio comes on. And I remember refrigeration. They bought a refrigeration. Oh, something amazing to buy a refrigerator, second television come in. [Telephone rings]

WASHBURN: Do you want me to get it?

OISHI: I'll get it.

GRAVES: You're all tied up.

WASHBURN: Who was it, solicitor?

GRAVES: Somebody trying to sell you--?

OISHI: No, dentist. My son has an appointment, make sure that he comes.

GRAVES: In talking about things you did for fun, and you talked about radio, did 01:32:00you read comic books?

OISHI: Oh yes, yes. I think everyday in newspaper was--that was our--it's different, we used to look forward to that comic books. Newspaper everyday there's a story or something, you want to follow that.

GRAVES: Which ones did you follow, do you remember?

OISHI: I don't recall. [Laughs]

GRAVES: So the thirties was the Depression.

OISHI: Thirties, yes. Maybe '29, '28, '30, those were bad years.

GRAVES: What do you remember, did it affect your family very much?

OISHI: No, I don't think so. Maybe the flower business--flower business is only as good as the transportation that you have in the state. In the ancient days, early days, maybe they were just able to sell flowers in San Francisco, Oakland, 01:33:00whatever close to the market. But as the cars became--they came out with Model-A's in 1936, better roads, better cars. So our flowers could go to Sacramento, could go to Fresno, could go to bigger areas. It wasn't just the local market.

GRAVES: So the flowers that were grown here would go to flower markets, wholesalers, in San Francisco?

OISHI: No, we would grow our flowers, and we would have a stall at the market, you been to the market? And our corporation that we have is the California Flower Market. There's three different corporations, but we had the interest in the California Flower Market.

GRAVES: And was that primarily Japanese American

OISHI: Yes, but now it's all integrated. And then we would cut our flowers and in ancient days, they had a man with his truck who'd come around to all the nurseries, pick the flowers up. You know, five, six nurseries or something. Pick the flowers up in his truck and bring them to the market, and put it in whatever place he's supposed to. And the seller would be my dad and my brother. They would just have to go themselves on the Key System or whatever it be.

GRAVES: And that would be early in the morning, right?

OISHI: Yes.

GRAVES: Like how early?

OISHI: I think they had to be there maybe six o'clock or something, or maybe it took time to get there.

GRAVES: How would you get there?

OISHI: They had a bus, Key System bus. If you catch a bus or something on San 01:35:00Pablo Avenue and I think my father, in the early days, he used to carry the basket on a bike and go.

GRAVES: He used to what?

OISHI: A basket. Maybe he didn't have too many flowers.

GRAVES: Carry them himself to the flower market?

OISHI: Carry. Put it on the back and go, or on the bus, and eventually the ferries came. The Key System was run up to the ferry line.

GRAVES: So then as the nursery got bigger, this truck would come and pick up flowers and take them.

OISHI: Yes, yes.

GRAVES: And your dad would go and meet and sell.

OISHI: No, he would have a stall. He would have a, maybe a table, ten feet long or something, and this is where he's supposed to sell. Every grower would have a different table. They'd pay rent for a year or whatever.

GRAVES: And they would sell to florists?

OISHI: Whoever comes to buy, yes. It was mostly florists. I don't think the public was able to get in. Even today, when you sell to the public, you have to sell sales tax or something. So they might get into trouble if they sell to the--unless they have a certain kind of license.

GRAVES: And in the flower market, there were these different corporations? There was the California Flower Market--.

OISHI: No, that's today, but in ancient days, maybe it was different. I know the Japanese had their own flower market. Maybe the Italians did too.

GRAVES: But in the same building?

OISHI: Maybe. Maybe different building. I think they were leasing the property before the war. This new California Flower Market originated after the war. They bought their own property and that's their building on property.

GRAVES: Did you ever go help at the flower market?

OISHI: Yes, yes.

GRAVES: Did you like that?

OISHI: Very interesting. And then what happened was, in 1936--. We're talking about your great-grandfather days! [Laughs].

GRAVES: My mom.

OISHI: Your mom? How old is your mom?

GRAVES: She's seventy-seven.

OISHI: Oh, she's not far behind me.

GRAVES: But so, you were about to say, in 1936 at the flower market.

OISHI: To me, you know, having this Model-T Ford--Model-T Ford was not ancient in those days. You were lucky to have a Model-T Ford even. We bought the 1936 Chevrolet, new one, brand new one, see. Then my brother started putting the flowers in his backseat and trunk. He takes the seat out in the back--the driver 01:38:00and passenger side--the seat in the back is taken out and he would load his flowers in there, start going to market.

GRAVES: So then you'd bypass the truck driver? You guys took your own flowers.

OISHI: Yes, yes. I think we were getting more production too.

WASHBURN: And you'd go across the bridge at that point?

OISHI: I think the bridge opened up in '36. When that bridge opened up?

GRAVES: I should know that.

WASHBURN: So did you go with your brother in the Chevrolet over to San Francisco?

OISHI: No, no. He went by car, but he had to take the ferry. Yes, yes, he had to take the ferry. I think one ferry--the Berkeley ferry, you could put automobiles 01:39:00on. In Oakland, I don't know if you were able to or not. So he would have to take the Berkeley ferry and go over there and go to the market. And then 1936 or something, '38 or something, the bridge opened up.

GRAVES: So that was while you were in high school?

OISHI: The bridge opened up when I was in junior high. I remember I was in junior high. And when we went to the fair--they had a fair in Treasure Island and my brother let me drive. Maybe I didn't have a license but that was kind of reckless, you know! And he let me drive home, oh, that was a big thrill for me! [Laughs]. I drove home from Treasure Island, young kid, maybe fifteen, maybe I 01:40:00was sixteen. Maybe I had license, I'm not sure. I still remember as a child, you know.

GRAVES: Do you remember the fair?

OISHI: Yes.

GRAVES: What did you see?

OISHI: Well, I don't know, everything really. [Laughs].

GRAVES: I don't know that much about that fair.

OISHI: No, they spent a lot of money. They went to something in that. I think it was opened up in '36 or '39, in those days.

GRAVES: Were there performances?

OISHI: Yes, yes, everything. All over the world, I think, they came. Japan had an exhibition there. Maybe they had tempura, you know. I remember they had a place to eat. They had a big pot of oil and there's oil burning and the cook--you order tempura or something. You get that shrimp and put a little flour on there and dip it in there and they give it to you. I thought that tempura was 01:41:00awfully good. You don't see that no more. You know, you have big bowl--big kettle of hot oil--he gets his Tempura shrimp and sticks inside there and put the right batter on there and give you a little rice and daikon and a little shoyu. [Laughs]

GRAVES: And so what was it like to go and have all this stuff from Japan there?

OISHI: I think every country had it, but this was before Japan and United States became hard feelings. But there was no hard feelings in those times, Japan voted to come over here. America was glad to sell them the oil, sell them the equipment to fight us back. [Laughs] He sold them all the equipment to fight us back!

WASHBURN: Do you remember feeling enthusiastic to go to the fair and eat the 01:42:00tempura there?

OISHI: Oh yes, yes, yes. I think, being Japanese and not knowing too much about Japan--. To me Japan was like going to the moon today. These people go on steerage. Steerage, you know what steerage is? Bottom of the boat. They have to have something down there, some weight to keep the boat below something. They put human beings down there in steerage and they didn't have too many boats. Maybe one or three, once a month or something they would go to Japan. I don't know how often. And then they had the upper class who had big money--you stay in upper class. But the average Japanese immigrants didn't have that kind of money. So they came in steerage. Maybe the bunks are ten high. I don't know what it was.

GRAVES: Was that how your mom and dad came?

OISHI: I believe so. So they became awfully ill and sick down in the bottom of the ship.

GRAVES: So Japan felt like a very foreign place.

OISHI: Like the moon to me. And you hear people going to Japan, they die, maybe food poisoning or something. They would have to dump the body off out in the ocean.

GRAVES: Do you remember going to any funerals when you were a kid?

OISHI: Yes, yes.

GRAVES: Japanese American people or Japanese people?

OISHI: We went to a lot of--the first generation people, when they died, went to a lot of those.

GRAVES: What were those like?

OISHI: If you're Buddhist, you have a Buddhist service. If you're Christian, you have a Christian service.

GRAVES: Do you remember any in particular?

OISHI: I know the custom was, you come home and you salt or something. You sprinkle salt on your hand or something before you come in the house. This ancient, ancient custom. They had all kinds of ancient customs or something.

GRAVES: Did you see your parents do that?

OISHI: Yes, yes.

GRAVES: Really, I haven't heard that.

OISHI: And then they would take a family picture--pictures of the funeral and everything else, which I thought was different--odd. But in these ancient days they used to do that.

GRAVES: Take a picture of everyone with the coffin?

OISHI: Yes, the family. They don't do that today.

GRAVES: So, in the '30s, Japan invaded China, in the early '30s.

OISHI: Yes, yes, Manchuria and all that stuff. They were going very aggressive. Japan is a little island, and they wanted to expand, which they did.

GRAVES: So were you aware of that while you were in school?

OISHI: Oh, yes, yes. But in the old days, United States and Japan was on fairly 01:45:00good terms. Well when I was going to high school--when I was growing up--you know, they were on bad terms. When I was going {inaudible}I always felt kind of ashamed, to go to Japanese School.

GRAVES: So did you stop?

OISHI: No. I keep going but you know what, our teacher, Mrs. Kawamoto, she comes from Berkeley. She had one son, they called him, she called him--this son was very dear to her--Yukibo. You know what Yukibo means? Bo means, you know, dear, chan, you know a girl, they call them chan--Fumikochan or. Bo {inaudible}Yukibo, you know. This boy was very dear to her. He graduated UC Berkeley and no doubt, since she was a schoolteacher, she made sure that he could read and write, speak 01:46:00the Japanese language right. He was in the intelligence corps--US Intelligence--bilingual, on the early part. He had a little older than I was, see. So he was drafted maybe before the war. He was sent in the intelligence corps, and he did a lot of good for this country's intelligence.

GRAVES: Kumamoto?

OISHI: Kumamoto? Yeah, yeah, something like that. Kawamoto.

GRAVES: Kawamoto, and they were from Berkeley?

OISHI: Yes. And then he didn't come back after the war. He was in Washington D.C., maybe he had a good job in Washington D.C. He was probably retired, maybe passed on now. Japanese Americans that was born in this country, and their parents sent them to Japan, they came back, they're bilingual, they're able to 01:47:00speak the Japanese language and the English language. They're in intelligence corps and there were all kinds of intelligence. There was a counter intelligence, there was intelligence corps, there was a language school. A lot of those boys are much more heroes than the 442nd because they were in intelligence and they did much more good for this country.

GRAVES: When you said that you felt embarrassed about going to language school, or self-conscious about it?

OISHI: [Laughs] You know, you'd read in the paper: "Japs doing this." You know, war does not break out over night. It takes a long time to break out, a war. Just like overseas, now. Oh, they want to come, they want everybody--every Arab is a suspect, he's gonna throw bomb on us.

GRAVES: So you could see this tension rising? Did you feel it here in Richmond 01:48:00in the people you knew?

OISHI: Yes, yes we do. No, not too much, but I know after the war--this is my country, this is the only country I got. This is the only country. I can't go to Japan, I'm American citizen. I'd be treated just like you. They won't give me a permit just because I'm Japanese. They won't maybe give me the papers to stay there.

GRAVES: So you just felt a little self-conscious.

OISHI: Yes, yes, yes. Well, you could tell, you read in the newspaper: "Japs are doing this, Japs are doing this."

GRAVES: Were there other things around the house that made you nervous? Did you guys have flags or any other sort of ceremonial things from Japan?

OISHI: No. I think some families did, you know. Our family had--oh, our assets, whatever little assets that we had were invested in this country. Other 01:49:00families, maybe they worked hard here, they're sending their money, maybe they're buying land in Japan. Maybe they had a house in Japan. All they were doing, for their own interest. They have to look after themselves, no one's going to look after them. Since they weren't able to buy a home here, they need to know how to get around

GRAVES: Like your family.

OISHI: Yes.

GRAVES: Did you date at all in high school? Did you have any girlfriends?

OISHI: No, I didn't have no girlfriends. I thought this March Fong Yu was awfully cute! [Laughs]

GRAVES: She looks like it. Your cousin looks cute too, but.

OISHI: And then I used to play, in high school--well, among boys, it's not so bad. When you get into co-education--we used to have co-education, I don't know if you do today or not, do they?

GRAVES: You mean co-education in sports?

OISHI: Yes, in gym period, you have gym period.

GRAVES: High school, I think it's different: girls and boys.

OISHI: Gym period--you know most of the time you play among boys, and then once a week or something, you have coeducation. You play tennis and do archery. You play volleyball. You would do badminton. And me and March, at the same time, we had gym together. She was in the girl class, I was in something, maybe there was a couple times. And since she's Asian and I'm Asian, you know, when Asian and a Caucasian girl, you know, there's little something. But among two boys, you could be Caucasian, you could be Greek or Japanese it's not so bad.

GRAVES: So why would they have you--so you would play with March?

OISHI: No, I felt comfortable playing with her, she felt comfortable playing with me.

GRAVES: You chose that.

OISHI: Maybe she did too. It was always quite an honor to know her.

GRAVES: She's quite a person.

OISHI: Yes.

GRAVES: Well, you know what, her interview was done by Regional Oral History Office, just like yours.

OISHI: Who did it?

GRAVES: Same organization. So now your going to be there with March Fong Yu.

OISHI: I'll never be with March Fong Yu! [Laughs].

WASHBURN: She didn't talk much about Richmond though.

GRAVES: No, I looked.

OISHI: No, no. March Fong Yu, I believe she had a tough life. You know, Chinese immigrant. Chinese, in the ancient days, in the 1800s, they were slaves, they built the railroad.

GRAVES: They were hung. They'd lynch people in Los Angeles. But I was thinking about what you said about your cousin and March Fong Yu being so smart and good at what they did and I wondered whether being a Japanese American girl and a Chinese American girl.

OISHI: They didn't get along. My cousin Ruby thought she was smarter than her. 01:52:00You know, when you're smart, "I'm smarter than her." {inaudible} Ruby, "I'm smarter than her." You know, they had big egos. It doesn't have to be a Japanese, any nationality. Two white girls, they're smart, "I'm smarter than her. I'm prettier than her." [Laughs]

GRAVES: Did Ruby go to college?

OISHI: Yes, she went to CAL.

GRAVES: Did any of your brothers or sisters go to college?

OISHI: Yes they went to Armstrong and stuff.

GRAVES: Who?

OISHI: My brother Joe went to Armstrong College.

GRAVES: Oh, what did he study?

OISHI: Business course, I believe.

GRAVES: He's the only one who went?

OISHI: Yeah.

GRAVES: He's the oldest?

OISHI: He's the oldest.

GRAVES: And when you were in high school, was he running the nursery with your father?

OISHI: Well, George is the second, he's two years younger than Joe. And then I got three sisters in between, then I come. There's a ten-year difference, five 01:53:00generations or something.

GRAVES: So did they run the nursery with?

OISHI: Yes, yes, yes. Instead of going to college or something George maybe he was a college-prep student, and he wanted to further his education but he sacrificed his education for the nursery. But in those days even if he did go to college, he'd get a degree in business administration--no one's going to hire you, unless you start your own business. If you become a dentist, you could open up your own office. If you become a doctor, you could open up your own office. But an engineer, you take an engineering course, you work in a fruit stand or laundry or work in the nursery. That's how it was.

GRAVES: So it didn't seem like there was that much opportunity.

OISHI: [Answer removed at narrator's request].

GRAVES: This Chevron?

OISHI: Yeah, Chevron in California. She was picked. Then what happened was, in our generation it was different, discrimination, but the JACL, the Japanese American Citizens' League--. Us people, we put a lot money into JACL. Membership was awfully high. Everything--we supported JACL. It is one of the stronger minority organizations, and the number of Japanese Americans in this country are very small. Maybe the city of Richmond--maybe there's 100,000 here in the states, I don't know how many. There was only about 100,000, what it is today, I don't know. Compared to the Chinese and colored. Since the 442nd and the 01:57:00intelligence group, that's why Japanese American--she could come out of college and be just as good as the next person, as long as she has the ability. They don't go by the color of your skin no longer.

GRAVES: You know, we were going to maybe stop this part and do you want to go walk over and look at the old house and the greenhouse? Do you feel like it?

OISHI: Yes, do you want a lunch? I could make you a little lunch.

WASHBURN: Well, I want to ask you, lastly, right before we end, what some of your memories were about your graduation from high school? You graduated in December of '39?

OISHI: I think what happened was, in January, I think they wanted to cut costs or something. We had it in January. It was supposed to be a December class or something, maybe they were {inaudible}. One graduation per year or something, it 01:58:00was odd.

GRAVES: Why would you end in the middle of the year?

OISHI: We had our graduation in January, but we got out in December.

WASHBURN: There were June graduates and December graduates.

OISHI: Oh, maybe, maybe.

WASHBURN: I remember seeing that in the thing. Well, when you graduated, what do you remember you were going to do once you graduated? What was your idea about your life after high school?

OISHI: I was much more Americanized than my brothers, see. They felt the discrimination. I felt, {inaudible} a man, I'm as good as the next man. I could get a job at Standard, I figure. But I was naïve! [Laughs] I could get a job at Ford. I was naïve. But that's how I felt.

GRAVES: Did you go try and get jobs at those places?

OISHI: No. Then, a buddy of mine says, "Hey Richmond is going to have a lot of shipyards." A buddy of mine, Caucasian fellow, "Let's take a welding course." So he gives a guy $100 or I don't know, whatever he charges. He taught us how to weld vertical, flat, overhead, the complete--he gave us a good course.

GRAVES: We'll start there next time.

GRAVES: Before the war, when you were growing up, what was this area right here?

OISHI: This was a nursery.

GRAVES: So there were lots of greenhouses here

OISHI: Yes, yes. This and that wasn't there. This plot was {inaudible}.

GRAVES: Were they your family nursery or other people's nurseries?

OISHI: Other people. Italian family, I believe, this and that one there.

GRAVES: An Italian family, do you remember their name?

OISHI: Mata.

GRAVES: Mata.

OISHI: Mata. Mata family. They were old timers.

GRAVES: M-A-T-T? M-A?

OISHI: Masa.

GRAVES: Masa, okay. So that was just south of yours.

OISHI: Yes.

GRAVES: You guys were there, they were here.

OISHI: And they're, they were old time--they might have been the first nursery people in this area.

GRAVES: And what were they growing?

OISHI: They were growing roses. They were a lot of brothers, they were in the First World War and then I think one of the brothers died so every Memorial Day, he would have flags and {inaudible}.

GRAVES: Flags here at the nursery?

OISHI: Yes.

GRAVES: Well let's walk up to your place.

WASHBURN: All of this used to be your place?

OISHI: Yeah, up to right up to here or something. That way. One acre.

WASHBURN: Recording on the road. [Laughs] So all these houses here, they were fields right?

OISHI: Yeah.

WASHBURN: And greenhouses?

OISHI: No, no greenhouses. They were bare land, not hay, just natural grass, mushrooms--we'd come out here, winter time, get all the mushrooms you want. After the rain, you go out there and you get nice mushrooms.

WASHBURN: So here we are coming up on the greenhouses right?

OISHI: They had goats. This kid, his duty was to stake out the goats before he goes to school. I was a little kid, little kid. So before we go to school, we had to stake out the goats. In the evening, he had to take the goats in. Mushrooms-- soon as it rains, mushrooms comes out. Oh, we all {inaudible}, get all the mushrooms we want.

GRAVES: And bring them home to your mom?

OISHI: Yeah, yeah. Ancient days, it's like Mexican workers--they live off the land. We could go out there and catch fish. We were able to get crabs. The crabs, I think the red ones or something, couldn't keep. And certain color you 02:03:00had to throw back and certain colors you were able to keep, and there was a size limit too.

GRAVES: Who was the family that had the goats? Do you remember their name?

OISHI: I don't know, Cadero. But they weren't Japanese, they were, I don't know, from Europe.

GRAVES: Italian maybe? Cadero.

OISHI: No, they weren't Italian. Australian or something.

GRAVES: So your greenhouses--.

OISHI: Like I said, we had a small acre {inaudible}. We had maybe four acres or three acres or something, and then we added on when the freeway came and they had the additional land for sale, the leftover land. That's our cousin Sakai.

GRAVES: So that's your uncle's family's nursery right next to yours?

OISHI: Yes.

GRAVES: Next to Oishi. And then there were the Masa nursery just south?

OISHI: Yes. No, in between there there was the Maeda family, the Maeda family--Fukushima family was there and the Maeda family--Fukushima family, Adachi family, Maeda family, Miyamoto family, Oshima family was in this area. But the Nabeda and--.

GRAVES: Ninomiya?

OISHI: Honda, Ninomiya was in a different area.

GRAVES: Where were they?

OISHI: They were in San Pablo.

GRAVES: So maybe before we go, you could just draw a little--I'll get you to draw a little map where everybody was.

OISHI: Well, Honda and Nabeda--Potrero Avenue and East Shore Freeway, I guess. 02:05:00They were right on the corner there, on the west side.

GRAVES: So that's kind of close, that's not far.

OISHI: Yeah, yeah.

GRAVES: Okay. You mean near San Pablo Avenue. What about Ninomiya?

OISHI: Ninomiya, Third Street and Brookside Drive. They're still there. The Ninomiya and the Kawai, and there's quite a few nurseries there.

GRAVES: Kawai?

OISHI: Kawai. No, Kawai is no longer in business, but they were ancient pioneers.

GRAVES: And Fukushima.

OISHI: Fukushima was east of us.

GRAVES: And Maeda.

OISHI: Maeda was south of Fukushima. And then there's two Maeda's and the other Maeda was next to the other Maeda, east. And then the Miyamoto was east of Maeda.

GRAVES: Miyamoto?

OISHI: Yes.

GRAVES: So that would have been over closer to San Pablo?

OISHI: Yes and then Oshima was hugging, was close to San Pablo Avenue.

GRAVES: Say the last name again.

OISHI: Oshima.

GRAVES: Oshima.

OISHI: They're the owner of the Honda--you know Honda property, dealership?

GRAVES: Yes.

OISHI: They own that property.

GRAVES: Oh. So when you were--were you born in that house?

OISHI: I think so. Maybe in my days we had a doctor, Dr. Cunningham, well known. I don't know if you came up with {inaudible}. Cunningham. He was very kind to the--. There might have been only about two doctors in the city of Richmond.

GRAVES: But when you guys needed to see a doctor, you saw Dr. Cunningham.

OISHI: Yes, it was Dr. Cunningham. He was younger, much younger than my father. Maybe my mother's age.

GRAVES: Really. There weren't any Japanese American doctors to see?

OISHI: No, in Berkeley, later on, there were.

GRAVES: Should we go in?

WASHBURN: Sure.

OISHI: This house was the old Japanese School.

GRAVES: Oh, so this is the house in that building, I mean the building in the photo and it was moved here.

OISHI: Yes, the picture, the picture. But my father put a basement see. But 02:08:00this, by rights, was a one story building, and then he put a basement or maybe he made it eight foot higher.

GRAVES: And where was it before?

OISHI: This was probably closer to over there.

GRAVES: So not very far?

OISHI: Yes, yes.

GRAVES: Why did he move it down here then?

OISHI: I don't think we owned the property at that time, where this building was on. I'm not sure. This is ancient, before I was born. Like those pictures there, you know they look like they're ten years old boy, and they're ten years older than me. So maybe I wasn't even born in those days! [Laughs].

GRAVES: But that was your mother in that picture?

OISHI: Yes, that was my mother.

GRAVES: {Ryu?}

OISHI: Yeah. She's young lady.

GRAVES: Yeah.

OISHI: I just built those {inaudible}.

GRAVES: Wait just a second so David can hear you, okay?

OISHI: This building was ancient building, one of the original buildings.

GRAVES: What was it used for?

OISHI: Well, I think we used grade flowers on there, inside that building.

GRAVES: That small one there?

OISHI: No, most of those buildings. And then this is our--we had a tank on top.

GRAVES: A water tank?

OISHI: Water tank, maybe twenty-six feet high.

GRAVES: That's what that structure there is for?

OISHI: Yes, yes, yes. This is ancient times we're talking about.

GRAVES: Yeah. So in the water tank.

OISHI: The water would be--they would pump the water into this tank and since it's so high, we didn't have to have a booster. The height of the water would push the water out to the nursery to irrigate.

GRAVES: So that water was used for both the nursery and your house, or just the nursery?

OISHI: I think we were drinking this water as {inaudible}.

GRAVES: So that's where you would grade flowers, sort them?

OISHI: Maybe in the ancient days, before this building was there, they would even--they were maybe even sleeping there.

GRAVES: Oh, okay.

OISHI: Before this house was built. Maybe there might have been another building over here and then we had a dining room and a kitchen over in that building there.

GRAVES: So David did you get this building?

OISHI: And then we had a Japanese pump.

WASHBURN: Could you describe one more time, Tom, what the building was?

GRAVES: Can you just say once more what this building was?

OISHI: Oh, this building, we might have been sleeping there, I'm not sure.

GRAVES: But then it was used for sorting and grading flowers?

OISHI: Yes, yes, yes.

GRAVES: And so then they moved the language school building here, and your dad raised it up. And that was where the bedrooms--.

OISHI: Yes, that's where we all slept.

GRAVES: And no living room, just bedrooms?

OISHI: No, no, no living room. No, maybe we had a living room, I'm not sure, yes we had a living room.

GRAVES: And where was the kitchen and dining room?

OISHI: Kitchen, we had a building roughly in this area--pretty big building. And we had our dining room and then our ancient boiler house would sit right here. Ancient boiler, we had to burn coal and this--our pump was all steam run. Maybe they had--you know have, like a train, ancient steam pumps.

GRAVES: And then the bathhouse was right there where that metal building is?

OISHI: Yes, yes, yes, about there.

GRAVES: And what about your vegetable garden?

OISHI: Oh, any place with open land.

GRAVES: Just little pieces.

OISHI: Yes. No, I think--we had quite a bit of land before the war, which is vacant, because we had to get soil from this vacant land and put in new soil inside the greenhouse. So we had to have--say, this soil here would be sitting here for two years or something and then we would get this soil and put it into the greenhouse for a new crop.

GRAVES: And you'd let it sit there so those bacteria would die?

OISHI: Yeah. And then, next year we would put the old soil back there. But after the war, I think they went into steam sterilization. See, we leave the old soil 02:13:00there and then sterilize it, just like a hospital would sterilize their medical equipment.

GRAVES: And where would you do that?

OISHI: We would do it right in the beds.

GRAVES: Right in the greenhouse.

OISHI: Yeah.

GRAVES: So there'd be the house, the kitchen, the bath and greenhouses all around?

OISHI: Yeah, but these greenhouses was rebuilt when my brother took over. After '36, in the thirties, we rebuilt the greenhouses, much more modern greenhouses.

GRAVES: How did they look different? How did they look different now than the first?

OISHI: I think they were much lower and when it gets hot, it would get much hotter and the earth, I think, wasn't as good.

GRAVES: The older ones?

OISHI: Yes.

GRAVES: Okay, so the older ones were more squat.

OISHI: Yes, yes. And then we used the bigger sized glass too. The size of the 02:14:00glass is much bigger now than they used in the old days.

GRAVES: But it's still wood frame right?

OISHI: Yes.

GRAVES: And it would have been wood frame then, the first ones too right?

OISHI: And maybe the first ones did not have concrete on the poles--every poles have their something. Maybe they didn't need the concrete.

GRAVES: Is the wood just sitting on the ground?

OISHI: No, the wood is buried in a hole. You have a hole, you may go down two feet or foot and a half, and the post sticks there, you poke up, either one of them.

GRAVES: Just around the post?

OISHI: Yeah, just around the post and the bottom.

GRAVES: So the rest of the wood is sitting on the ground, or is there a concrete slab underneath?

OISHI: You have a hole here, you put a little cement inside the hole, put a 02:15:00post, a four by four pole inside there and then you put concrete around it.

GRAVES: Yes, but what about the wall, the wood that's the wall?

OISHI: No, that's just nailed onto the pole.

GRAVES: Posts. And it meets the ground. Did your brother build the greenhouses?

OISHI: No, I was more or less on the construction end of it.

GRAVES: Oh, you did it?

OISHI: Yes, yes.

GRAVES: Oh, wow.

OISHI: Out of high school, I built this boiler house, soon as I got out of high school.

GRAVES: That's a boiler house?

OISHI: Yeah, used to be a boiler house, used to be.

GRAVES: Yes, and that's the boiler to run?

OISHI: To heat the greenhouses in the winter months.

GRAVES: So you'd use coal, you said, for that?

OISHI: No, in those days, in the early days they used coal. But eventually, they used oil, heavy oil. Now we're in gas.

GRAVES: So there's pipes that go from under that--no, that's it, those are the pipes.

OISHI: That's the steam line. We have a boiler there and the steam runs through there.

GRAVES: And it heats up the greenhouses? Wow, and what about those tanks?

OISHI: The tank is--. Here's our well. We pump the water out of the well into this tank and from that tank, we use pressure and we run it out to the nursery 02:17:00at maybe sixty, seventy-pound pressure or something.

GRAVES: Are you still using--you're not using well water now are you?

OISHI: Yes, we're using well water today.

GRAVES: Wow, that's amazing.

OISHI: But, the well water will only give you so much--so many gallons per minute, while this here would do maybe three times more. So when we quit work we would have to pump water into this tank, which might take, depending on how much they used it, may take twenty-four hours to fill it up. But with this booster system--our men could empty this tank in eight hours time.

GRAVES: So is your operation not tied in to the city water supply, now?

OISHI: No, we have city water in case we're short of the well water we would use 02:18:00city water. And then certain times of year your salts would build up too high--the well water--and we'd have to dilute it with city water.

GRAVES: Do you think your dad and your uncles used well water?

OISHI: Yes.

GRAVES: From the very beginning, they built their own sort of irrigation system like this.

OISHI: Well water, yes. And that machine there, under the hood there, that's what you call a {Fertiljet?}. A {Fertiljet} is--to every, say, hundred gallons of water, it pumps into the line maybe one gallon of fertilizer. So everything that's fed on the greenhouse is being fed. It's just like a little bit at a time. But in case it comes summer time, you need more nitrogen, we'll add more 02:19:00nitrogen into our solution. And in the winter months, you don't need as much nitrogen so we would add more potash into our solution.

GRAVES: Before you had this kind of system, how did you or your father or your older brothers fertilize the plants?

OISHI: You know what, they had another tank besides the one here which was lower, maybe fifteen feet high. And instead of being ten thousand gallons or something, it would be maybe a thousand gallons. And they would put water inside there and buy fertilizer, organic fertilizer, and put that inside the tank. And they would water that way. And that's one way of doing it, but they could easily 02:20:00feed it now to each carnation {inaudible} by hand. But in this way here, every time you water, there's a certain amount of fertilizer, nitrogen or potash would go in. We have a lab that comes and tests us every so many weeks and they determine what to put in, what not to put in.

GRAVES: Where would your dad and you brothers buy the fertilizer?

OISHI: Oh, there were different dealers in the Bay Area.

GRAVES: But you didn't use the goat manure from across the street?

OISHI: No, no, no.

WASHBURN: Do you want to go into one of the buildings?

GRAVES: Yeah.

WASHBURN: Hey, Tom, you know, your--this thing isn't attached. See this thing, it's hanging loose.

OISHI: Oh yeah, yeah. I don't know. {Inaudible}

GRAVES: So you said that front--small one used to be, and then when did you build this?

OISHI: When we got bigger, we expanded after the war, so we had to get a bigger boiler. [Saw heard in background] This is aluminum tubing--we have holes--one-fourth of an inch in diameter holes--every eight inches or something, throughout, and then we'd shoot steam through there, and that's how we sterilize 02:22:00our soil.

GRAVES: So the boiler is used for sterilizing the soil and for heating the greenhouse?

OISHI: Yes, yes, yes. But the cost of fuel has gone up so high. Utility tax--city of Richmond takes seven per cent utility tax. Maybe other cities and counties don't charge that, see. And we're competing with other counties, other cities, other countries. Yes, so it's hard to make ends meet.

GRAVES: Could we go look in a greenhouse?

OISHI: Sure. --To the point where we couldn't keep our help. They had no place to stay.

GRAVES: Couldn't keep your health? Your help.

OISHI: Help, help.

GRAVES: Oh, okay. Your employees.

OISHI: So we had to furnish housing for them, 02:23:00so this is one of the ways and we have other cottages that we rent today.

GRAVES: Oh, when did that start?

OISHI: Oh, right after the war. Maybe in the sixties or something, rent was so high and everything in Richmond and housing was short.

GRAVES: Who was working for you then?

OISHI: I think after the war, we used Latin help mostly.

GRAVES: Mostly people from Mexico?

OISHI: Yes, but we were getting students and local high school graduates and stuff. But they got {inaudible}. They were high school graduates, they got better opportunities.

GRAVES: Wow, these are big. That's beautiful.

OISHI: It's not much of an operation now. It's rundown, nursery business is very depressing. But at one time, I was proud of our production that we had here. And we would ship it into any Seattle market or Canada, Chicago, San Antonio. And our quality year round, you know, we thought was, on the average, better than others. That wasn't because we were good growers, we were located in the city of Richmond and we had this ideal growing conditions. Maybe other time of the year, certain months, their flower's better. But as a whole, throughout the whole year, we were told it was true. It doesn't cost the City of Richmond, we just 02:25:00pay the City of Richmond taxes. We don't get nothing out of it. All they're doing is taking, not giving. We grow the flower. We pay the help. We buy the supply. We pay sales tax. That's {inaudible}. When we were building up here, that's {inaudible}. We pay utility tax. And they figure that every bunch of flowers that we grow, there's so many other people that's making money off of you. Your city gets taxes, everything. The airline makes money. We buy gasoline. We buy supplies. All the city does is take, don't give nothing. It should be a big profit for the city. A lot of industries are something they just take from 02:26:00the city. We just give to the city. Take nothing out of it.

GRAVES: When you said Richmond was an ideal place to do--.

OISHI: No, climate-wise. It would have been much better if we didn't have Stauffer Chemical south of us, Standard Oil west of us. Our flowers would have been much better.

GRAVES: Okay.

OISHI: In the ancient days, or in the sixties or something, air pollution was, you know, you could throw anything out of the stack. Stauffer Chemical was south of us. We don't know what they were throwing out of the stack. Standard Oil was west of us. If the wind blows west, we don't know what's coming out. We would send flowers, good quality flowers, to say, Chicago, and for a long time, no 02:27:00kick back. "Hey, your flowers are going bad." We don't know what it is. We can't pin it on Stauffer Chemical. We cannot pin it on Chevron. It could have been the smog.

GRAVES: So the flowers weren't lasting?

OISHI: Yes. It could be the smog in between here and San Francisco. It could be the airport. The air cargo is all open and the jet is there, and the all the fuels go right through the whole building. It could be that. Now I think a lot of it was caused by the different industries here. Richmond is known for its chemicals. I worked in Chicago for two years--two or three years during the war years--and most of the chemicals spray comes from Richmond, California. You have 02:28:00your Niagara. You have your Ortho. You have your Stauffer Chemical. All the space--made in Richmond.

GRAVES: And there you were in Chicago, during the forties.

OISHI: Yeah, {inaudible}.

GRAVES: When you look down this greenhouse and see the way these carnations are growing, does this look the same as when you were growing up?

OISHI: Yes, more or less the same principle. But there's a lot of automation. We thought we had a pretty modern nursery. We had the automatic watering system, before we used to do it all by hand. We had this ventilation system. There's a thermostat, it closes the vent, opens the vent. And we had the pads. The pads 02:29:00that we have here, we spent a lot of money on. When the temperature comes to a certain temperature, the fan would kick on. And then on both ends we would have padded area, and then the water would drip down on this pad and build the humidity up. So we would have the right humidity and the right temperature. So it was more or less automated. I was proud of our operation but today it's--you know, it doesn't pay for us to do all this.

GRAVES: When you were a child, how were things like humidity and watering and temperature and air flow controlled?

OISHI: Well, this here has come up in the sixties, this is recent times. It wasn't invented by us. It was all done by--well, in this country. Every state 02:30:00has their research.

GRAVES: But I'm asking how it was different when your dad and your brothers were running the greenhouse?

OISHI: They had no research. They had to do whatever they felt was right. They had no knowledge of--University was not doing research on it, so they did what they learned in the old country.

GRAVES: Like?

OISHI: Like the manure and stuff. They would buy manure from cattle ranches, and {inaudible}, and plow it under. And that manure field--the dirt we would bring it to the greenhouse and grow our crop.

GRAVES: And you'd water by hand?

OISHI: Water by hand.

GRAVES: Was there any way you'd try to keep the humidity up?

OISHI: Oh, I think in Richmond, it was natural. It was natural. Maybe in the 02:31:00winter months, we don't have as much sun as we would like, and our temperature does not drop as much as we would like it to. If it may change, the greenhouse would like to have a temperature routine--forty-eight, fifty or something. But the natural Richmond temperature might be fifty and there's too much humidity in there and the only way to get the humidity out is by running a boiler. But as you run the boiler, temperature gets too high and your quality of flowers would get very weak. So there was a lot of disadvantage and we had a lot of advantages here too.

GRAVES: When you were a kid, did you guys have this kind of structure that the flowers would grow up through?

OISHI: Yes, yes, same way.

GRAVES: Is this the way all the other nurseries do it too, with the wire and the string?

OISHI: No, some use bamboo in between there.

GRAVES: Did you use bamboo when you were a kid?

OISHI: No. Well, bamboo came in after the Second World War.

GRAVES: So was it your job to do the string?

OISHI: Yes, yes, yes.

GRAVES: You and your sisters and brothers. That must have been a big job.

OISHI: Yeah. Well, the nursery wasn't as big. Maybe it was only one-third or maybe one-fourth of this size.

GRAVES: So how many greenhouses this size did you all have when you were a kid?

OISHI: Not many.

GRAVES: More than one?

OISHI: Yes, yes, maybe we had six, seven.

GRAVES: That's a lot to do.

OISHI: Yes, yes.

GRAVES: Wow.

OISHI: I'll show you some newer greenhouses. Like this here is a pad. In the 02:33:00summer months, we used this pad here. But on the end, we used to put water on the pad. We had a pump, and the water come to a certain {inaudible}. And we would recycle the water, keep the certain humidity in the greenhouse.

GRAVES: What's the material between the wiring?

OISHI: That was supposed to be--. Since we don't use the pad and water system, we open up holes here.

GRAVES: But what is this?

OISHI: Oh, I don't know. It's the same thing they use in air conditioner, water cool units.

GRAVES: Oh, so it's not a plant material, it's some artificial--.

OISHI: No, no, no. Yes. They bring it in from Minnesota or something. I used to go up to Sacramento and buy this stuff.

GRAVES: Should we look in this one?

OISHI: The carnations look pretty good.

GRAVES: They look beautiful.

OISHI: Pretty healthy looking. It's all according to the weather we have.

GRAVES: So how old are these plants, when were they planted?

OISHI: These may be two years old, but usually when we were in our prime, our lifetime of plant was two years. These may be three years--a lot of these plants here may be three, four years.

GRAVES: They look really good. Tom, what was growing here?

OISHI: I don't know, this is some crop, {Luciansis?} or--.

GRAVES: What?

OISHI: Seasonal crop. The crop is over.

GRAVES: A flower?

OISHI: Yes, yes. This is a greenhouse they manufacture in the east, Midwest, and 02:36:00they put it on a truck and we brought it here. We put it up ourselves. While the other ones--we bought the lumber and everything here. Went to a yard and bought the lumber. But this is a manufactured greenhouse.

GRAVES: When did you buy this one?

OISHI: This was, maybe in the early-seventies.

GRAVES: It's a lot bigger. Twice as big?

OISHI: Yes, yes. But there's advantage. It looks good and everything, the little houses--. This has two vents for maybe thirty-five feet wide and those other houses are thirty feet wide and they have 02:37:00two vents. So those houses are better in growing. Temperature would stay cooler. This house would get much hotter, vents is much more airtight.

GRAVES: Is the metal harder to maintain?

OISHI: No, the metal is--. You have to get in and paint the bars, which is wood. And that's the fan. And then we would have a padded area on this end and the fan would kick on and the water kick on the pad, and we would get a cool breeze comes through the greenhouse. All we're trying to do is keep our plants happy.

GRAVES: Do you use a lot of chemical fertilizers and pesticides and stuff?

OISHI: Yes, yes. The whole thing is chemical. We used to use organic fertilizer, 02:38:00but now it's all-chemical fertilizers put through the {Ferterjet}.

GRAVES: What about bugs and other diseases, do you use a lot of chemicals for that?

OISHI: Yes, we always spray, yes. That's why we bought off of Niagara and {CalSpray}.

WASHBURN: So how many blooms do you get per year on these plants?

OISHI: Well, I think we can get about fifteen blooms to a plant. That's in its prime, but when you get older and stuff, maybe the production goes way down. That's what we were averaging.

WASHBURN: So when you were younger, did you used to cut flowers every month?

OISHI: Oh yes, everyday. We'd cut every other day.

GRAVES: After school, you'd come in and cut?

OISHI: Oh, you mean, smaller. I don't think, we didn't have to do that. Maybe we had to put string on and other odd jobs. They didn't abuse us, you know! [Laughs]

GRAVES: Well, or maybe trust you! [Laughs]

OISHI: No, no, no!

WASHBURN: Before the war, who came in and cut the flowers?

OISHI: I was out of high school a little before the war.

GRAVES: So maybe your brothers and your dad did the flowers?

OISHI: Yes, yes.

GRAVES: Where would you cut a flower? If you were coming through here and you were going to trim.

OISHI: It would have to be an open bloom. These looking {inaudible}. Maybe that one there will be ready Saturday, that bloom. But you could see in the Albertson's or Safeway, they cut them tight in Ecuador or Colombia and they're more or less that size there when they're in the market. But we cut them much more open.

WASHBURN: So how would you go up and cut that?

OISHI: About there. You might want to cut it closer to the eye here, it's possible. Then next year it could come up.

GRAVES: Besides the house, are the other greenhouse buildings we should see?

OISHI: This is, you know, plastic vine that was there. All the water comes through here so we get maybe seventy-pound pressure here and we could water maybe four benches at one time. So we're saving a lot of labor costs which we had to.

WASHBURN: Let's go check out the house, yeah?

GRAVES: Tom, can we go look at your house now?

OISHI: I'll show you this aluminum house.

GRAVES: Okay.

OISHI: Which I'm proud of. This is the most modern greenhouse around. See, the 02:41:00whole thing is aluminum. Your bars and the {inaudible}. It has a big glass in there, too which is double strength. It gives a lot of light out. It's an eastern greenhouse, one of the most modern greenhouses around.

GRAVES: When did you put that one up?

OISHI: This was built in 1960.

GRAVES: And those are the same down there?

OISHI: That's the Sakai's. They grow roses there.

GRAVES: And the Sakais, are there members of that family that we could talk to?

OISHI: Well, maybe the third generation, I'm not sure.

GRAVES: But nobody your age.

OISHI: No, Sam is ninety-three. I don't know if he would do a good interview or not.

GRAVES: And Ruby is in L.A.?

OISHI: Yes, I don't think Ruby is capable.

GRAVES: And were there just those two?

OISHI: No, they passed on. You get to be in the nineties, you start going when you're sixty. [Laughs]

GRAVES: Yeah, you lose them. Yes. Well, let's shut all these doors. You know, I've driven by these for years and it's a privilege to finally--.

OISHI: Her English has not improved at all, and my Japanese hasn't improved. Even when I was a child, I was forced to speak the Japanese language and as I got a little older, you know, it faded away. I went in the Army, everything else until I came back, and then she came twenty-seven years ago. So my Japanese has 02:43:00come back.

GRAVES: Is she your only Japanese employee?

OISHI: Yes, from Japan. So when I went to Japan I had cousins--. Gordon, I want you to meet--.

GRAVES: Hi, I'm Donna, nice to meet you.

OISHI: And David. This is what's his name's friend.

WASHBURN: Nat's friend.

OISHI: Nat's friend, yes. And when I went to Japan, you know, I'm just like you. You going to Japan, I'm no different than you, see. What am I going to talk to these people. Could I understand these people? What subject we going to talk about? [Laughs] And naturally, they're they are our relatives. Grandpa is the same grandpa. My father and my uncle are their uncles, so we had a lot to talk 02:44:00about. And they were surprised that the Japanese language that I was able to speak. They were amazed. Thanks to {Miyokasan}. {Miyokasan} is this girl here.

GRAVES: And your language teachers, and your parents, thanks to them.

OISHI: Oh yeah, yeah. My parents had a lot to do with it. Well, they were from two different parts of Japan. Well, more or less the same something, but they spoke different dialects and one was awfully rough and one was very {inaudible}, you know.

GRAVES: But your parents' families knew each other, right? Didn't you think your dad--?

OISHI: Yeah, might have been little {inaudible}, might have been, I'm not sure. That we don't know. You know, being over 150 years ago or something, it's just 02:45:00more or less guesswork. Just like our son would guess about their grandpa. So that's amazing to me, just like you people are guessing about Richmond.

GRAVES: So this was the language school, the original one. But is this the front?

OISHI: Yes, yes. They added on that addition there. But this building here was recently built, maybe twenty, thirty years ago, this addition.

GRAVES: The addition is from the right hand side.

OISHI: From the blue right, is the new addition. But the old building is from there down. And there was one story building instead of two-story building. And it extended out when they moved the house over.

GRAVES: Can we go in?

OISHI: Yes. Oh, I have to find a key.

GRAVES: [Viewing refrigeration of flowers] It's so colorful. It's beautiful.

OISHI: A signal. {inaudible}.

GRAVES: Emergency release?

OISHI: {Inaudible} I don't have my right glasses. {Inaudible} Would you turn on the light?

GRAVES: Yes.

OISHI: Now maybe you would have to come here and read the--.

GRAVES: We're looking for Kobe to start with.

OISHI: No, Osaka. Osaka's some place around there.

GRAVES: There's Osaka.

OISHI: Oh, probably that's the place. That's the route, see. And then there's a big mountain that goes over and then it comes back to sea level. They're both sea level, right? And there's a big mountain in between there. There in the foothills of the mountains, like Placerville or Auburn would be.

GRAVES: What's the name of the village?

OISHI: Sasayama. I believe it's on there. I don't know if it's on this map, it could be on this map here. I went to Japan '82 or something, twenty years ago. And I told the agent, "I just intend to go one time, show me as much as possible. I don't care about the cost." And this agent got me a good trip. All the national monuments, national parks, all the things that you should see he bought me. We went from Niko--went down to Kyushu, Hiroshima, Nagasaki, Benpo, Amanohashidate is another one. Do you know about that? It's near my mother's place. It's a well-known national park but the American tourists don't go there. Natives go there.

GRAVES: Hashidate?

OISHI: Yes, Amanohashidate. It's well known. My mother comes from more or less on the Japan Sea, close to the Japan seaside. One is {Hyogoken} and the other is Kyoto--{Kyotofu}. I guess the Kyoto went that way or something, {Hyogoken?} runs this way.

GRAVES: And so you went to both of those places?

OISHI: Yes, I went to both.

GRAVES: Were there relatives there?

OISHI: No, my mother's side I didn't meet, but my father's side I met quite a lot. I was surprised. It was good to meet them. But a lot of my uncles--they're all passed on--but my cousin was still alive. Eighty years old, I didn't know how old they are, maybe they might have been ninety years old. I was in Osaka hotel, I called him up by telephone, "We'll meet here." You know, I didn't know what kind of people they were. I was naïve and I see these two old ladies there waiting, I think, "Geez, I hope that's not them." [Laughs] To get old ladies to come down, ask them to come hotel and meet you, that's not etiquette. Sure enough, it was them. [Laughs] But we had a good time, we spent maybe two three hours, we had lunch there and that made my trip to Japan. We talked about ancient grandpa days and everything else.

GRAVES: That's great.

OISHI: Yeah.

GRAVES: Well, David needs to get to another appointment.