http://ohms.lib.berkeley.edu%2Fviewer.php%3Fcachefile%3DInterview42129.xml#segment0
WASHBURN: Today is October 30 and we're recording in Evelyn Duran's home on Key
Boulevard in Richmond, California. I'm here with Evelyn Duran and Rosa--SILVAS: Silvas. Gonzalez.
WASHBURN: Gonzalez also?
DURAN: We're all Gonzalez.
SILVAS: We're all Gonzalez. But that's my married name, Silvas.
WASHBURN: I want the atmosphere just to be fun, so don't worry about
interrupting one another because that's not important. I do need to ask one person a question and another person just so I can find things out. For 00:01:00instance, Rosa--when were you born, and where were you born?SILVAS: I was born in Sonora, Mexico. Do you want the year?
WASHBURN: Yeah, if you want.
SILVAS: The year is 1917. What else do you want to ask me?
WASHBURN: That's fine. Evelyn, when were you born?
DURAN: I was born in Phoenix, Arizona, August 27, 1926.
WASHBURN: 1926. I should be writing these down. Can I write some things down?
I'm supposed to be writing these things down, not you. You were born in Phoenix in '26, and you were born in Sonora in what year?SILVAS: 1917.
WASHBURN: Who is the eldest of your family?
NARRATORS: Robert.
WASHBURN: Robert?
SILVAS: Roberto Gonzalez.
00:02:00WASHBURN: He was the oldest of the family?
DURAN: He was the minister of the Mexican Baptist Church in Richmond. The church
was located on the corner of B Street and Barrett.WASHBURN: Where are you in the family?
DURAN: I'm the tenth. We were eleven.
WASHBURN: You were eleven--Frank said ten.
SILVAS: Well, ten really, but the last one born after Evelyn died shortly after birth.
WASHBURN: Oh really? That's quite a big family.
SILVAS: But ten lived. We were ten for a long time.
WASHBURN: Did you go to school in Mexico for a while?
SILVAS: For about a year. I went to Nogales.
WASHBURN: Nogales. For only a year? That's not very long.
SILVAS: No. I was in Phoenix in the seventh, and returned to Mexico and stayed
over there for about a year. That year I went to school there, in Nogales. 00:03:00WASHBURN: Evelyn, you were born in Phoenix. When did the Gonzalez family come
from Sonora to the United States?SILVAS: That's what I'm trying to figure myself. It was after '21. See, my
brother was born in Mexico in 1921. So, 1922, '23, and '24. I have no recollection between 1921-1925 until my sister, Katie, was born in 1925. Then she, Evelyn, was born in 1926.WASHBURN: I think Frank told me 1924, you guys came.
SILVAS: I don't have no recollection, like I say, for three years.
WASHBURN: Well, that's not important. What were some of your childhood memories
of Mexico, before you came? 00:04:00SILVAS: I was a little girl then, where I was born. What I remember is that I
used to be, like, in a kindergarten, and I would take a little box and sit with the class. That's all I remember.WASHBURN: Did you guys live in town or did you live outside of town?
SILVAS: Right in town. We had the largest home there. We used to rent a room to
the school. From there, we moved to Esqueda, where my other brother was born--in 00:05:00Esqueda. Then we came through to Bisbee, [Arizona], where my sister Katie was born, in 1925. And then she (Evelyn) was born in 1926. Let me see what I can recollect. We stayed there in Phoenix before we came to California, and commuted back and forth. I went to school for seven years, and then we went into Mexico and I went one year. After that we came back. Remember where that President Hunt-- 00:06:00WASHBURN: Hoover?
SILVAS: Hoover. There was a time we went into Mexico on account of him because I
didn't have no passport.WASHBURN: Papers?
SILVAS: When we came to the United States, I was only eight years old. I didn't
know a word in English. Because they put a law that anybody that didn't have their papers were sent back to Mexico. That's how we happened to go to Mexico on account of that law that passed, because kids weren't allowed into the United 00:07:00States without no any papers--just the grown-ups. Therefore my mother and my father and my oldest brother got immigrated, but we were younger and we didn't need papers--the ones that were alive then. Of course, he's American (her husband), born here. [laughs]WASHBURN: I thought you were going to say a bad word there. Starting with a "p"
or something. [laughter]SILVAS: So we lived in Phoenix the rest of the time. During the war, well, we
all decided to come to Richmond, and all the family came to Richmond. 00:08:00WASHBURN: Before you talk about Richmond--you had such a big family. How did
your mom and father support such a big family? Given that it was so big, how did it all come together?SILVAS: My father was working in the mines in Bisbee--the Copper Queen. He was
working there, before we came to Phoenix.DURAN: The boys were working too.
SILVAS: Well, Robert was, and Frank and the rest were too young to work there.
Then, like Frank said, we came in 1924, but I don't know. I don't recall from the time that my brother Bob was born--that was 1921. So, '22, '23, and '24, I 00:09:00don't recall nothing, until my sister was born in 1925. From then on, we came to Phoenix, and went to school, here in Phoenix.WASHBURN: Do you have memories of your father working a lot and being away from
the house?SILVAS: Yeah, during the time in Phoenix. When he came from Bisbee, he was sort
of sick, so he didn't work for about a year because he was kind of sick on account of working on the mines. But, after that, he worked making boxes for the fruteria, what do you call that?DURAN: Farmworkers.
WASHBURN: If you want to say anything in Spanish too, go ahead and say anything
00:10:00in Spanish that you want. It's okay. You don't have to worry about translating.SILVAS: You know where they bring vegetables, in the warehouse. They used to
give you the crates. They were broken and he would fix them, and sell them back again to the people that gave him the crates--different sizes of crates. That's how he made his living.WASHBURN: Did your mom work at that time?
SILVAS: No, never worked.
WASHBURN: How did just one guy support all ten? A lot of the kids worked also,
right? How did the family unit kind of support itself?SILVAS: Through my dad, and my two oldest brothers, like Frank. Frank supported
00:11:00quite a bit, at that time. Before they were born, Frank was really the--and my brother Gus that was second. He died already.WASHBURN: Is that short for Gustavo?
SILVAS: Uh huh. Gustavo. Then we grew up and everybody tried to get into some
kind of a job.WASHBURN: Did you work when you were in your youth?
SILVAS: I worked in so many places.
WASHBURN: What were some of the jobs you remember?
SILVAS: Well, I worked for that laundry--what do you call that laundry?
DURAN: Phoenix Laundry.
SILVAS: And I worked in a company in Los Angeles where they make corduroy pants.
I worked, not in the company, but I worked in the home. You know where [Senator 00:12:00Robert F.] Kennedy was killed--the Ambassador Hotel? I just lived a block over from there. I used to take care of the girl. I was like a nanny to this girl. I used to take her, on Saturdays, to the movies there. We used to play golf, miniature golf. I worked in the glove manufacturing company in San Francisco, and the Beams Bag Company.WASHBURN: I was wondering about jobs before you came to Richmond.
SILVAS: In Phoenix--I worked for the Boston store in Phoenix. It's Dillard's
00:13:00now. When I worked there it was named Diamonds. Because he was from Boston, he was Diamonds. From Diamonds, he went to Dillard's. So, I worked at the Boston store. Where else did I work in Phoenix? I don't remember.WASHBURN: Did you do these jobs to pay for your own clothes? Or did you get jobs
to then give the money to your folks?SILVAS: I gave the money to my mother. Just how I get the check, she got it. I
never spend it. If I needed any money, I would ask her for money, if I needed something. Just the way I got the check, I gave it to her.WASHBURN: So did all the kids give their checks to your mom?
00:14:00SILVAS: No, just me. I don't know about Trini, but I did. In Phoenix, what other
jobs did I have? I can't recall any, but I did work for Phoenix Laundry.WASHBURN: I guess it's not so much important exactly what jobs you did, but kind
of like--did you work, rather than going to school, I guess, is the question.SILVAS: I had to work. I had to work. There was no two ways about it. There was
the bad times. It was during the Depression years. So there was no two way about it: I had to work, and my older sister did too.WASHBURN: Did you guys feel fortunate to even have jobs?
SILVAS: Yes, because there were no jobs really. I worked for a family. While I
00:15:00was going to school, one summer, my mother sent me to a couple that had kids. I used to take care of the kids during the summer months, and go to school during the school months. She told me that she was going to buy me clothes, and all she did after it finished--she gave me her clothes. [laughs]DURAN: They were bought. [laughs]
WASHBURN: They were bought at some time, right!
SILVAS: Well, I never went back. My mother didn't send me back. That's all I
recall. I'm trying to make my story.WASHBURN: No, that's great. That's really good.
00:16:00DURAN: Until she came to Richmond--she hasn't finished yet.
WASHBURN: No, I want to stay on Phoenix. So you were born in 1926.
DURAN: Right.
WASHBURN: What can you describe about your childhood after hearing your sister's story?
DURAN: I was the youngest. I just went to school. I had eight years. Then, at
twelve, I went to go get my social security so I could go to work. Right after I graduated from my eighth grade, I went to work in the laundry. I worked forty hours a week for ten dollars and forty cents [laughs]. During summer--we used to 00:17:00work in other laundries. Myself --two other sisters, Katie and Trini -- (to Rosa) I don't know if you went-- When the war was going on, we used to go to the laundry and press the soldiers shirts and pants.SILVAS: Yeah, I was a presser.
DURAN: Pressed did the pants for the army. The soldiers. We used to do the
laundry work. Mostly pressing, of course. Then, after that, when I was fifteen, that's when I came to Richmond.WASHBURN: So you were still young.
DURAN: Yeah.
WASHBURN: But you went to school up until eighth grade.
DURAN: Yes.
SILVAS: I did too.
WASHBURN: Oh, you went to school up until eighth grade?
SILVAS: Yes.
WASHBURN: I didn't catch that.
00:18:00SILVAS: When we went to Nogales, I was in the seventh, I tell you. I went to
Mexico, and they put me in the third grade. I came back when I was in fourth grade, from over there, into the eighth grade here, and they graduate me from eighth grade. You know, the lessons I was getting in the seventh were the lessons they were giving in Mexico in the third grade.WASHBURN: Wow. The education is more advanced in Mexico.
SILVAS: Even algebra.
WASHBURN: Wow.
SILVAS: Algebra--they give it here in high school. They start you over there.
WASHBURN: So you went to work after eighth grade too?
DURAN: Yes.
WASHBURN: Why was the eighth grade the cutoff point for people, between school
and work?DURAN: Well, I didn't go further.
SILVAS: Me neither.
WASHBURN: But nowadays, people say what's the cutoff point, and the cutoff point
people say is after high school. 00:19:00DURAN: Because we had to go to work.
SILVAS: We had to.
WASHBURN: Well, tell me about that.
DURAN: We had to go to work.
SILVAS: And it was during the Depression years.
WASHBURN: Did you expect in eighth grade, going in that year, that that was
going to be your last year of school? Did you know that?DURAN: Yes, I figured.
SILVAS: Actually, it was.
WASHBURN: So was that the same for a lot of other students in your grade too?
DURAN: I don't know. I started working and I didn't come into contact with any
of the other kids. Forty-two, I came here with my brother. I was only fifteen.WASHBURN: So you guys both worked doing laundry?
Both:
Yeah.
WASHBURN: Was that a common thing to do, for gals your age, to do laundry?
00:20:00SILVAS: Well, there were all ages that worked in the laundry. All ages. I used
to work folding shirts, or I gave the work to the pressers--the one that pressed. They were army shirts and regular shirts. That was my job, to give them the work. Then, after that, we left. We came to Richmond.WASHBURN: Did you guys both work at the same laundry place?
DURAN: Not all the time.
SILVAS: Each was different times.
DURAN: See, I was always real tall, and I always had to finagle my age in order
00:21:00to be able to work. Even when I came here, to Richmond.WASHBURN: I'm trying to understand what it was like. I spoke with another woman
who was Mexican. She also lived in Santa Barbara, and all of her sisters did laundry also.DURAN: Josie?
WASHBURN: Josie. Exactly. So you know that? I'm trying to understand--did people
speak a lot of Spanish on the job? Was the workplace kind of mixed? White and Mexican?DURAN: Yes.
WASHBURN: It was?
DURAN: Where I worked, yes.
SILVAS: It was, like, bilingual. We have always talked the both languages. All
the time, because my dad and my mother always talk Spanish, and then we talked English in the job. And then, in the church--I learned how to read and write in church. That's Spanish, because they used to do services in English and Spanish 00:22:00at the time. We had American missionaries, that we were taught in English, but then we went into the church and they talked Spanish. For a time there after that, all our ministers used to talk both languages at the same time.WASHBURN: Were your parents Baptists?
SILVAS: Uh huh. We were Baptists.
WASHBURN: Did your parents convert to Baptism?
SILVAS: Yeah, my mother used to be Catholic but when my brother became minister,
he was the one that turned us into Baptists.WASHBURN: The whole family?
00:23:00SILVAS: Mm-hmm.
WASHBURN: Tell me how that worked.
SILVAS: He went to the seminary for six years here on Indiana Street on Los Angeles.
WASHBURN: In Los Angeles?
SILVAS: Uh-huh. That's how Robert converted my mother and my dad into Baptists,
because he became a Baptist minister. I guess one of the ministers--and he wanted to go to the seminary to be a minister. He went for six years. He was graduate from seminary in Los Angeles.WASHBURN: What drove him to study and become a Baptist himself?
SILVAS: I guess by the Baptist ministers that were then in the Baptist church.
00:24:00WASHBURN: I'm not quite following. Did you guys go to Catholic Church when you
were younger?SILVAS: No, we never did.
WASHBURN: You never did. So did you guys start going to the Baptist church?
DURAN: My brother met this minister, Mr. Mercado, and they became friends. I
don't know what Frank says, but he was the one that converted him. Following from there, probably, he talked to my brother Robert, and--SILVAS: --converted the whole family.
WASHBURN: Did he meet him in Phoenix or in Los Angeles?
SILVAS: Phoenix.
WASHBURN: Met him in Phoenix?
00:25:00DURAN: I think that was the beginning of our Baptist--
SILVAS: Of coming back and forth, from Phoenix to California.
WASHBURN: Do you, Evelyn, remember growing up Baptist--remember that being part
of who you were? Do you ever remember feeling Catholic before you were Baptist?DURAN: No, because I was still a baby when they went to the Baptist church. I
don't know anything about the Catholic Church.SILVAS: Nor me, neither.
WASHBURN: You weren't that way?
SILVAS: No.
WASHBURN: Why not?
SILVAS: Because at the time, my mother actually considered herself Catholic, but
she never went to the Catholic church. So therefore, when my brother was converted and he converted my mother--and my dad, we all attended the Baptist 00:26:00church. We were grown already. Like I say, the church taught me a lot. I learned how to read and write in Spanish while we were in the Baptist church.WASHBURN: Do you feel fortunate that you guys ended up being Baptist and not Catholic?
SILVAS: Oh yeah, because, like I say, they used to talk both languages.
WASHBURN: But some Catholic churches would do that also, right?
DURAN: Probably now they do. They didn't back then.
WASHBURN: No? They didn't then? They just spoke in English, or was it Latin?
SILVAS: No, Latin. And who knows Latin? Just them. My mother liked the Baptist
00:27:00church, so we all went to the Baptist church.WASHBURN: So there you go.
DURAN: I had to go.
WASHBURN: So then you started going to church more often then.
SILVAS: Yeah! We lived in church.
WASHBURN: That's a big change. Some kids probably wouldn't like to be going to
church. I really never went to church, but my friends did, and they never really liked it. As a kid, you say you felt fortunate learning English, but do you and the other kids remember complaining, "Why do we have to go do this?"SILVAS: I didn't. I took it like it was a "must." Our parents didn't actually
make us, but they took us. We had to be in church. We were in church most of the 00:28:00time. To tell you the truth--my mother and my dad--we did what they wanted us to do.WASHBURN: Or do what they wanted you to do? You'd do what they wanted you to do.
SILVAS: Yes, and that's what we did. We used to go to everything that was
connected with the church.DURAN: We weren't allowed to go to dances, shows or anything like that.
SILVAS: We weren't allowed.
DURAN: Or even mix with our neighbors. They just didn't want us as wild kids,
apparently, which I appreciate very much, because we were very much close--SILVAS: --to the family. We were a very close family when we were young.
00:29:00WASHBURN: That's something I'd like to know.
DURAN: We were always sports oriented. We used to play baseball in school. The
only thing my mom would let us do was go play ball. So we used to play in the summer leagues in Arizona.WASHBURN: The boys and the girls?
SILVAS: Just the girls.
DURAN: They used to have girl teams at that time.
SILVAS: I don't know if you remember--you were young though--when they had the
Queens, the Ramblers, in Phoenix.WASHBURN: Tell me a little history about the girls' leagues in Phoenix. What was it?
DURAN: Every summer, they had leagues. And, at the time, they had professional
00:30:00girls' teams.WASHBURN: Was it softball?
SILVAS: Softball!
WASHBURN: Softball. So it wasn't baseball, it was softball.
SILVAS: My sister, Katie, was pitcher. What did you play? Trini played first
base, and I was a fielder. I played the three fields.DURAN: I played center field and shortstop.
WASHBURN: So how many teams were there in Phoenix? I think Frank described
Phoenix as being no more than twenty some thousand people at that time, right?DURAN: I didn't know the difference. I don't know.
WASHBURN: It wasn't too big of a town.
DURAN: The PBSW Ramblers and the Ace Queens were the big teams from Arizona.
WASHBURN: I'm talking about when you guys were playing. You guys were on one
team together. How many other teams were there?SILVAS: But we played when we were going to school.
DURAN: We used to play in the summer leagues.
00:31:00WASHBURN: Right. So how many teams were there in the leagues?
DURAN: Oh, wow. Several.
SILVAS: They used to play each other. I don't remember when she played, because
I was in California.WASHBURN: Were the teams mixed, or was it just one team would be Mexican teams
with Mexican girls?DURAN: Fortunately, we could get together as a Mexican team. There was also a
black team--girls. Then the others were mixed. There were several, but I don't recall so many.WASHBURN: That seems different than how I think about those times in that, how I
think is that people didn't encourage girls to go out there and play sports and do all that. Now that you say this, that sounds really different than what I'd 00:32:00think was going on then.DURAN: The only reason why we played was because we couldn't go anywhere else.
That was our recreation.WASHBURN: Was it the same way for other girls too?
DURAN: No, there were wild girls too, in them days. [laughs] Maybe not as rough.
WASHBURN: You don't remember anybody telling you, "You're a girl and you
shouldn't be out there getting dirty and playing ball"?DURAN: No. We were the stars of the school. Us, yeah.
WASHBURN: You won trophies?
SILVAS: We went to Wilson's School in Phoenix.
WASHBURN: So, what years were these when you played in the summer leagues?
DURAN: The late thirties? I was already here in '42. It had to be between, I
00:33:00would say, '36 and '40.SILVAS: I was in California and I went back to Phoenix 1936.
WASHBURN: '36 and '40. Hmm.
DURAN: In fact, I was married and I was four months pregnant when I was playing
baseball. [laughs]WASHBURN: I guess we could talk about Phoenix a lot, but just because we don't
have all night, I'd like to talk about coming to Richmond. What year did you come to Richmond, Rose?SILVAS: I guess it was right after my mother died. It was 1943. I worked in the
shipyard from 1943 to when they closed in 1945. You know when they closed, I was working that day that they had the armistice.WASHBURN: V-Day?
SILVAS: When the war was gone.
DURAN: Ended.
00:34:00SILVAS: Ended. When the war ended, I was working in the shipyard. I worked in
the plate shop as a welder.WASHBURN: What can you tell me about the decision for you to come out to
Richmond? What do you remember about the decision?SILVAS: Because all my family came, and I was the only one that stayed back when
my mother died--after my mother died. I was the only one that stayed back in Phoenix.WASHBURN: Where was your father at this time?
SILVAS: He was there.
WASHBURN: He was there?
SILVAS: He was there
WASHBURN: Okay. So you were the only one to stay with your folks?
SILVAS: No, my mother had died, and I stayed by myself with my dad. All the rest
of my family came to Richmond. Todos vivian en Richmond, todos. 00:35:00WASHBURN: Your decision just seemed like--
SILVAS: I had to come because todos estan aqui. Everybody was here. Our house
you know, had to be rented before leaving Phoenix.WASHBURN: So if everybody was here, what do you remember people--you were in
contact with people, what were they telling you about Richmond?SILVAS: The one that really made us come to Richmond was Frank, my brother,
because he's the one that came first. Then we followed right after. On account of the shipyard.DURAN: I came to Richmond with him.
SILVAS: After '42. All my brothers and Trini came to work in the shipyards.
WASHBURN: Name them so I can write them down. Trini was one of your brothers.
00:36:00SILVAS: Sisters.
DURAN: Trinidad.
SILVAS: Carrico
WASHBURN: Trini worked--
DURAN: Yard Three, Frank and Rose worked yard one--
WASHBURN: Frank worked there too?
DURAN: Robert, my brother worked there too.
WASHBURN: Robert, the minister worked there too?
SILVAS: Yeah, and I have another brother--Bob.
WASHBURN: So there's Roberto and Bob?
DURAN: Uh-huh. Actually it was Baldezar, but he didn't like it, so for short we
called him Bob.WASHBURN: So Bob worked in the shipyards also?
SILVAS: And another brother did--Albert.
DURAN: And Gus. Worked in Yard Three.
SILVAS: And Gus--Gustavo.
WASHBURN: And then Rosa and Evelyn.
SILVAS: Trini?
WASHBURN: Yeah, you named Trini. One, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight.
SILVAS: Evelyn and Katie.
WASHBURN: Katie worked in the shipyards too?
SILVAS: She was a shipfitter.
00:37:00WASHBURN: That's a really big family to all be working for the same company.
DURAN: We were in different yards, but we worked for the same company.
SILVAS: Then after the shipyards, Katie worked for Standard Oil. She was a
gauger. She used to go--DURAN: Katie.
SILVAS: She used to go into those big tanks and check the gauge meter from the oil.
WASHBURN: I kind of want to keep things chronological, so I can make sense of it
all. I mean, I'd love to talk a little more freely but... Your brother Frank told me that he came out to Richmond first--and this is what he remembers and I'd like to see what you remember too. Let me ask you--what do you remember about why he came out to Richmond?SILVAS: To work on the shipyards.
00:38:00WASHBURN: I mean, you're out in Phoenix. How does he know what's going on out in
Richmond, if there's work here?DURAN: Frank always worked with the people. He used to work for a furniture
store. He went all over. Obviously, somebody from--customers, or somebody, had been here, told him about the shipyards. He came and he--SILVAS: He liked it and then he got us all to come.
DURAN: No, no, no. Wait a minute. He went back and my brother Albert and myself,
we came back with him in '42.SILVAS: Then Gus came.
DURAN: I couldn't work because I was too young, so my brother Frank--.
WASHBURN: You were only fifteen then.
00:39:00DURAN: You could go to work at sixteen. I told my brother Frank for him to go
with me to--what do you call those people that make certificates and stuff like that? When we went with Betty, where was that? That woman that made that paper?SILVAS: Notarize?
DURAN: Yeah, notary. I told him to go to a notary and then to make a--. We
cheated one year so I could go to work.WASHBURN: So you were fifteen and you went to a notary to get a forged
certificate saying that you were sixteen.DURAN: Everybody believed it because I was so big. I was huge.
SILVAS: And tough.
DURAN: Very tough. I was very tough. I was 5'9".
00:40:00WASHBURN: That is pretty tall for sixteen. Do you remember feeling too young to
be working there?DURAN: No, I was always very curious, and then I felt big because I could work
with the grown-ups. I went there and I was in, and I worked two years and a half.WASHBURN: Do you remember other girls working there, your age?
DURAN: No.
WASHBURN: What was the youngest that you remember?
DURAN: I don't know, because we were in groups. When I first went in, I was a
helper and was the only girl with about five or six men. I used to carry their 00:41:00tools, or whatever. After that, when I took classes at the shipyards. In order to become a burner, I had to take classes on how to regulate a torch.WASHBURN: Learned how to do that?
DURAN: Mm-hmm.
WASHBURN: When you first came to Richmond, where did you stay?
DURAN: We stayed with Frank. They lived on B Street.
WASHBURN: Can you describe what the house was like or anything?
DURAN: An old house. [laughter] We lived next to those Santa Fe [Railroad] work
people that had those little houses. Just old homes called the section houses.WASHBURN: So you started work as a helper and went to school to become a burner.
00:42:00You were a helper with six men. You were just this fifteen-year-old girl.DURAN: But people all worked together. You couldn't tell one from the other
unless you saw their welding outfit, or you had a torch.SILVAS: They had burners, welders--
WASHBURN: You're saying you couldn't even tell who was a man and who was a woman?
DURAN: Really, lots of times you didn't.
SILVAS: The welders--we had to use leathers.
DURAN: Burners did too. We had to have these heavy leather outfits.
SILVAS: I used to have--
DURAN: The goggles.
SILVAS: --you know, the welder's--outfit and hood
DURAN: What do they call that?
00:43:00WASHBURN: The face shield kind of thing?
DURAN: Yeah, it had a name, but I forget.
WASHBURN: So did you work as a burner for the whole time you were at the shipyards?
DURAN: Mostly, I would say.
SILVAS: And I worked as a welder, all the time.
WASHBURN: You came in as a welder? Evelyn came in in '42 and Rosa, you came in
in '43.SILVAS: Mm-hmm.
WASHBURN: Did you move into the same house that Evelyn was staying at?
SILVAS: No, I didn't. I went to live with Albert, the other brother.
WASHBURN: Albert had gotten his own place?
SILVAS: Mm-hmm.
DURAN: Albert and I came with Frank together, with his family first.
WASHBURN: With Frank's wife and--
DURAN: Kids.
SILVAS: I was with Albert--
WASHBURN: So Albert got his own place?
SILVAS: --and his wife.
00:44:00WASHBURN: So where was your place?
SILVAS: Right there, right next to Frank, on the other side of the street.
DURAN: On B Street, just across the street.
WASHBURN: So how did you come into the shipyards as a welder?
SILVAS: I went to school. I was supposed to be in school for a whole week, but
they needed welders so bad that I was in school only two days and they put me in yard one. I started tacking--what you call tacking steel --in place, before the welders come in and weld the whole works. Then they put me in the plate shop. In the plate shop, I was welding those big rails that are inside the bottom of the Liberty ships. Rails as big as this house, with those big rods. Size eleven rod. 00:45:00I stayed there. They kept me there. We were about six girls and two men--our crew. One year, they had a competition, who would put more work out. We won. Our crew won the competition, so they put our names in the paper. I have the picture of all the welders with my leaderman when we won. That's why they took a picture, because we won. We made most of the work. We did more work than any of the two others groups.DURAN: It was a competition between the shipyards.
00:46:00WASHBURN: Tell me about the competition between the three yards.
SILVAS: Whoever put out more work, and we did it.
WASHBURN: You put out more work than other people?
SILVAS: That's why they put our pictures in the paper. I have that picture.
WASHBURN: What paper was it?
SILVAS: Richmond Independent.
WASHBURN: Do you remember what year that was? What month maybe?
SILVAS: Gosh, I don't remember because it was before the war was over. I did
work, I would say, about two years.WASHBURN: If you go home and find the picture--
SILVAS: I have it.
WASHBURN: Yeah, call Evelyn. I'd like to see if I can look it up.
SILVAS: Oh.
WASHBURN: You can look it up in the library.
SILVAS: I can send it to you if you want.
WASHBURN: Oh, no, no, no. You should keep it.
SILVAS: No, I have it. It's easy. I have a small one like that, and I have a big one.
00:47:00WASHBURN: Okay.
SILVAS: I can send you the picture.
WASHBURN: You guys said you worked in laundry in Phoenix. Am I right to assume
that it was mostly women who were working there at the laundry?SILVAS: Both.
DURAN: Mainly women. The men--all they used to do is the washing.
SILVAS: The hard--the heavy work.
WASHBURN: So what was it like then, after having that kind of job, to working at
the shipyards where you're working with--DURAN: Tools.
WASHBURN: --tools, and stuff.
DURAN: Dirty.
WASHBURN: And you're getting dirty and you're working in a more manly kind of job.
SILVAS: Well, we still did it.
DURAN: Well, at that moment, at my age, I was very curious. I was looking
forward to making money.SILVAS: I think I was in my twenties or thirties or something like that, so when
00:48:00you're that age, you've got all the strength. [laughs]DURAN: We weren't used to that outside life. The girls at our age went to dances
every weekend, or go out partying. We weren't raised that way. To me, my curiosity was to have a job and do it well.WASHBURN: There were nine of your siblings who worked--not in the same yard, right?
DURAN: No. We were scattered over the three.
WASHBURN: But at the shipyards--did you guys ever go from your neighborhood out
there to the shipyard together? Did you ever have lunch together? I mean, did you ever have a routine? 00:49:00SILVAS: The family?
WASHBURN: Yeah.
SILVAS: No.
DURAN: It was too far apart, to begin with. The yards were separate.
SILVAS: We would have lunch with our own workers.
DURAN: Part of where she worked was part of our yard, Yard One. Prefab. We had a
half-hour, and I don't know if you're aware of how far it is to climb a ship and come down. The ladder.WASHBURN: So, what is it?
SILVAS: It was too far to get together. We would just get together with
co-workers, in my group. They had groups, and each group had a leaderman.DURAN: When the whistle blew, everybody scattered to eat lunch. You couldn't go far.
SILVAS: Then they had special programs for us on lunch hour.
00:50:00WASHBURN: Tell me about that--what kind of programs?
DURAN: Movie stars came to the shipyard to entertain us, to perform. In fact, I
was telling my daughter today, I had the picture of Victor Mature.WASHBURN: What shows do you remember seeing there?
SILVAS: No, it wasn't a show. They came in person.
WASHBURN: They came and did they have a concert?
DURAN: They sang.
WASHBURN: They sang at the shipyards?
NARRATORS: Yeah.
WASHBURN: During lunch or afterwards?
SILVAS: During lunch hour.
DURAN: That's when our entertainment was, during our lunch hour.
WASHBURN: Did this happen frequently? How often would that happen?
SILVAS: I think it was every week or every month.
DURAN: Something like that. I don't recall. I have Victor Mature's picture when
he was at our yard.WASHBURN: So what would you guys do during the concerts then?
00:51:00SILVAS: Eat. That was our lunch hour.
WASHBURN: But you said you were working on the ships. Would you come down off
the ships and sit down to watch the concert?DURAN: Oh, yeah. You could go anywhere in that half hour that you wanted to go.
Sometimes they had those trucks that bring in sandwiches and stuff like that. You had to hurry because-- the lines were long.SILVAS: They just gave us a certain time.
WASHBURN: I'd like to ask each person this question separately. Let's say, Rosa,
what memories do you have of your crew--of who they were and where they came from, and all that?SILVAS: Well, they were from different places. Some were from California, some
were from Oklahoma, and some were from Texas, from Arizona. And, of course, from 00:52:00California and from Richmond. Like I say, there was a girl that came from close to Santa Barbara, but they were different cities.DURAN: They were from all over the country.
WASHBURN: Do you remember at lunch hour, talking about where each person was
from? How did you learn about where people were from?SILVAS: We used to get together. We even had a bracelet made for each person. I
have the bracelet--the names of each worker--name of the girls and the men from my crew only.WASHBURN: So your crew was really a tight unit.
00:53:00SILVAS: Mm-hmm. They were a wonderful crew. The men always tried to help the
girls because--like, we had different kind of machines to work, to weld--different names. Some machines were good, but some weren't. I used to always be early--I was never late. I was always half an hour early, so I could get the best machine. [laughs] When you get the best machine, you kept it. I was always early. There were some machines where the work wasn't as nice --my work was very smooth. Some would split. They had to go to the leadermen to get the 00:54:00right fire, temperature.WASHBURN: Coming out of the torch?
SILVAS: Mm-hmm.
WASHBURN: Yeah, I've welded before so I know you have to get the right
temperature so it doesn't stick too much.SILVAS: Well, they had different kinds of machines, but I used to see which
machine was the one that did the best job. [laughs] I used to be early so I could get my good machine. But, of course, sometimes you had to get the leaderman to tell you.WASHBURN: You said you had all the names of the crew on your bracelet. Did you
guys spend time together after work? 00:55:00SILVAS: Once in a while we would get together. Towards the end we got together
and got the bracelet with all the names of the crew.WASHBURN: Towards the end of your time there?
SILVAS: Of the war.
WASHBURN: Some other woman mentioned that she didn't have her ears pierced
before she went to the shipyards, and that there was a woman who was coming around the shipyards, or maybe worked on her crew, who she knew who was piercing a lot of women's ears.SILVAS: Oh.
WASHBURN: Do you remember that ever--kind of like when you bonded with other
women that way? Somebody would come around and pierce your ears?SILVAS: No, I don't remember. All I remember is my crew. We all got bracelets.
00:56:00WASHBURN: So you wouldn't know anybody outside of your crew who was working there?
SILVAS: No. Just through work, that's all.
WASHBURN: I guess you have the impression that, because there are all these
people working there, everybody was mingling and rubbing elbows together, but from what you're saying, it seems like it was pretty divided or pretty separated.SILVAS: Well, the only time we got together is during lunchtime, sometimes,
because we always used to eat our lunch. Like she said, there was a lunch cart that would come with food, and a lot of workers used to buy from that lunch cart. 00:57:00WASHBURN: That's interesting.
[Interruption while videotape is changed.]
WASHBURN: We were talking about your crew and how people were either friends
or--then you made the bracelet at the end and all that.SILVAS: I was in the paper, Rosie the Riveter. I was in the paper of the Sun--
DURAN: He wants some information when you were in the shipyards, about your
00:58:00crew, what you did.WASHBURN: Well, I'll ask you the same question, Evelyn. Rosa, how many were in
your crew? You said eight?SILVAS: About eight, more or less.
WASHBURN: How big was your crew, Evelyn?
DURAN: It varied, depending on the job we had to do, because sometimes there
were smaller jobs and bigger jobs. They'd separate the crew. Generally it would be ten, twelve. There was two girls--me and another young girl--and about ten men. We didn't know where any of us went, usually. They told us where we had to 00:59:00go to work, or do the job. There were so many people, you wouldn't know what crew anybody was because there were so many people. We knew what we had to do.WASHBURN: Frank was a leaderman. He said he was a leaderman and he was also a foreman.
SILVAS: For the riggers.
WASHBURN: For the riggers?
DURAN: Prefab.
WASHBURN: For Prefab.
SILVAS: Shipyard Number One.
DURAN: It was an addition to our Yard One. I was Yard One.
WASHBURN: I thought it was interesting how he likes to speak Spanish now, and he
said, then, he didn't speak English very well. Yet he still seemed to make his way up from just being a helper to being a leaderman and then a foreman. 01:00:00DURAN: He only had three years school.
WASHBURN: Were there other guys like him who didn't speak English very well--
SILVAS: That made it?
WASHBURN: That made it as a leaderman. Do you ever remember having a Mexican
leaderman like Frank?SILVAS: No. Mine were American. Well, I just had one leaderman all through when
they put me in the ship, plate shop. Because I used to work in the cabins. I used to weld vertical and overhead, and then they put me in the plate shop where I had to weld those big rails--the ones that the ship has under. I think that's why we won, because we really put the work out, because they were so big. For 01:01:00us, it was easy. It was hard work though. Even though.DURAN: You know you said you went to Fourth Street?
WASHBURN: Mm-hmm.
DURAN: Well, the lady, didn't she work in the shipyard?
WASHBURN: Yeah. John's mother worked there. She's still around. He said she's
had a few strokes though, and she's not doing so hot. So, would you guys say that your brother Frank was unique, in a way, that he came from Mexico but he kind of made his way up there?DURAN: Very aggressive. He was always a go-getter.
WASHBURN: Go-getter?
DURAN: Mm-hmm.
WASHBURN: I guess it makes me think about--people write about discrimination in
01:02:00Richmond, primarily for black people in the shipyards. I know more of them came later on in the shipyards, but for me, it seemed unique that Frank, even though he didn't speak English very well, people still had the confidence to put him in a position.DURAN: Exactly.
WASHBURN: Do you guys ever remember feeling like people treated you different
because you were Mexican?SILVAS: I didn't.
DURAN: I didn't either.
SILVAS: All my crew were just wonderful to me.
DURAN: I didn't. In fact, the men that I worked with, they felt sorry for us
girls because it was so cold. When I worked the graveyard [shift] I would get behind something that would protect me from the wind and rain.SILVAS: Where it was warm.
DURAN: I don't know why, but at that time, it used to rain a lot. It was always
01:03:00wet. It was so cold up there on the ship; the steel was cold. Then the rain on top of that, and it was windy. It was so hard.SILVAS: We'd stick to the steel. [laughing] It scared me to death. The thing
would get red. You have to take the thing off right away.WASHBURN: The rod? So it doesn't stick.
SILVAS: What do you call that that has the rod?
DURAN: The stinger.
SILVAS: The stinger. You have to take the stinger off right away, or the rod
will just stick to the stinger.WASHBURN: So you remember it, Evelyn--both of you remember it being very cold
down there.DURAN: Definitely.
SILVAS: You know, I wore three pants, three shirts and my leathers on top of it.
01:04:00The shoes were clear over here--boots.DURAN: Steel-toed.
SILVAS: With steel toes.
WASHBURN: Down there were the shipyards are, it's very exposed to the bay. Was
it foggy also, down there?DURAN: Everything--rain, fog, wind.
SILVAS: I worked in the plate shop. It was open both ways. There was no way that
they could close it in because they brought the steel in, in some kind of machinery and then laid it down. It was impossible to close the sides, so the wind would roar by. 01:05:00DURAN: They had those big old cranes that brought those big old sheets of steel.
They'd lay them in the assembly line. When we got them, they were bigger, depending on where the fitting was to the ship.SILVAS: My other sister that died, she worked as a shipbuilder. She was the one
that marked the lines so they could be cut, or put over so they could be welded like that. See?DURAN: The brackets.
SILVAS: Mm-hmm, brackets.
WASHBURN: You guys said that at the laundry place, it was bilingual. Do you
remember hearing other languages at the shipyards, or did you ever speak Spanish in the shipyards?DURAN: We spoke Spanish whenever we had to.
SILVAS: If they were Spanish people, we spoke Spanish.
01:06:00WASHBURN: Do you remember running into other people who spoke Spanish?
SILVAS: Oh, yes. There were a few.
DURAN: My first experience with prejudice was in school. They didn't allow us to
speak Spanish when I was going to grammar school.SILVAS: But that was in Phoenix.
DURAN: Well, that's right.
WASHBURN: I remember speaking with other people--that's a pretty common thing.
SILVAS: But not with me, I didn't feel that way. During the time I was in
school, I didn't feel that way.DURAN: And I was--like, as usual, we were always playing ball. Once we were out
in the playground, I told the girl, "Throw the ball" in Spanish. The yard teacher told me I would have study hall in place of having lunch the following 01:07:00day. All Because I just said one word in Spanish.WASHBURN: Out on the play yard.
SILVAS: She had the trouble like that--I never did.
DURAN: That's just the only time.
WASHBURN: Well, like I said, you guys, people have a hard time figuring out how
many Mexican people came to Richmond during the war years. With what you guys remember--you say you remember you spoke Spanish with a lot of other people, with people at the shipyards. I've spoken with one woman who says she never remembers speaking Spanish with anybody there, or seeing anybody else who was Mexican who was there. What can you guys tell me about other Mexican people coming from other parts of the country?DURAN: As far as my experience, there wasn't that many, let's say, Latinos. I
01:08:00only met one girl, which was my friend I met there, and everybody spoke English. But not because we were supposed to--just that everybody was American. We just had to speak English.SILVAS: On my side, I was the only one Mexican. All the crew were Americans.
There were two men working with the crew of girls. We were about six girls and two men, or eight girls and two men, anyway. They were older men because they couldn't be in the war. They weren't young. They were older men, because it was past their age.WASHBURN: Well, let me ask you about that. People would think, "Well, hey,
01:09:00there's all these women who work there and just a few men. The men would be pretty lucky because they get to meet all these women and they'd probably find a wife."DURAN: A lot of them did.
WASHBURN: What was it like, that you guys remember, about the relations--sexual
relations--between men and women working at the shipyards.DURAN: I've always been very--I've never really been very friendly. I was always
very cautious with myself.SILVAS: Me too.
DURAN: I'd be friendly, talking, if we had to communicate for anything.
SILVAS: During just work hours, but not after.
DURAN: There was a lot of women that were married and their husbands were away
and all that stuff. We'd know about it, but we were single then.WASHBURN: I'm just saying, people didn't flirt a lot on the job or anything like that?
01:10:00DURAN: I don't think so. I think they were mainly friendly.
SILVAS: Yes, and they worked very hard. We all worked very hard. Our time on the
job, the eight hours, was really, really--we didn't fool around. The only time I remember is when the machine went out of whack, we had to get the leaderman to come and fix it up for us. That's the only time that we had time off.WASHBURN: So what happened during that time?
SILVAS: We would just wait until he fixed the machine. That's the only time we
would have a little bit off the job. They had those machines going a hundred percent, let me tell you. They kept them up. There were some machines that could 01:11:00work that the job--that the work--would be better than the others. I always tried to get the best one.WASHBURN: Let me ask you about the union, because people talk about unions there
a lot.SILVAS: We belonged to a union, didn't we?
WASHBURN: What do you guys remember about the union? You both belonged to the
Boilermakers Union?SILVAS: Uh huh.
WASHBURN: What do you remember about signing up and being a member of the union?
SILVAS: Well, we just signed up, that's all. Paid our dues, especially.
DURAN: Once we were assigned to go to work, we had to sign up for the union.
SILVAS: That was better pay than any pay anywhere else. The pay that they paid us.
WASHBURN: Some people say joining the union was kind of an obligation for
01:12:00people. Did you remember it being that way too, or did you have a choice?SILVAS: No. You had no choice. We had to join.
DURAN: We had to join in order to go to work, but that's everybody, in general.
WASHBURN: What do you guys remember about wages? How much did you earn when you
first started there, and how did you--SILVAS: Do you remember the wages?
DURAN: I do.
WASHBURN: Evelyn, what did you start?
DURAN: I started out with a dollar an hour. That was great instead of forty
cents for forty hours at the laundry.SILVAS: For that time.
DURAN: I thought I was rich, coming in from over there--a dollar an hour. Then,
when I went into graveyard, I used to earn a dollar and twenty cents an hour. I used to like graveyard.WASHBURN: So what did you do with your money? If you felt like you were making a
01:13:00lot of money, how did you spend it?DURAN: There's not very much after you had to pay rent and food and take care of
yourself. There wasn't really all that much. It was very much because of what we used to earn in Arizona.WASHBURN: Was the cost of living in Richmond higher than in Arizona too?
DURAN: I guess.
SILVAS: In that time, it was sort of about the same, but the jobs weren't good
in Arizona. The jobs didn't pay as good. Do you remember how much we used to get for laundry?DURAN: I used to get ten dollars and forty cents for forty hours--a whole week.
Eight hours a day. That was my pay for five days. 01:14:00WASHBURN: Wow.
SILVAS: When I used to work for the Boston Store. It's Dillard's now. After the
Boston Store, it was Diamonds, and then it became Dillard's. I made good. We used to work, not by the hour but commission--I used to do good with commission.WASHBURN: I want to learn about the shipyards, but I also want to learn about
the community that you guys lived in down there on B [Street] and--were you on B or were you on Barrett [Avenue]?DURAN: B, between Barrett and Nevin [Avenue].
01:15:00WASHBURN: What do you guys remember about moving there the first time? Some
memories you have about maybe your neighbors, or walking around the neighborhood--the houses looked different than the ones you lived in--what memories do you have?DURAN: When we first came here, we were out with Frank and my brother. He had a
friend that lived in those Santa Fe homes. We stayed with them for a week until Frank could find a place for us to stay. They only had two rooms, and it was a couple and they had four kids. Can you imagine? We stayed there until Frank found a house.SILVAS: We started working right away at the shipyards when we got here. Right way.
DURAN: You probably did. I didn't.
SILVAS: I did. I started right away.
WASHBURN: What do you mean Evelyn that you didn't start right away?
01:16:00DURAN: I wasn't old enough.
WASHBURN: You weren't old enough. How long did you stay here before you worked?
DURAN: I don't remember?
WASHBURN: Approximately. A couple weeks? A couple months?
DURAN: Well, in between there, I went back to a laundry over here in Richmond.
WASHBURN: Worked laundry. So you didn't just hang out for a while.
DURAN: No.
SILVAS: We were good workers. [laughs]
DURAN: We've always been hustlers. Work, work, work, work. My dad always taught
us that. If you want anything, you have to work for it. That's the way he was.SILVAS: He was a go-getter, my dad.
DURAN: He didn't want us lazing around. He didn't believe, like he said, in the
"gimme gimme." We were just taught to work. 01:17:00WASHBURN: About the neighborhood down there--a guy named Sal Chavez--do you know
Sal Chavez?DURAN: Yeah.
WASHBURN: He lived in the Santa Fe housing there. He described to me a little
bit about what the Mexican community was like down there, by the Santa Fe housing, and he told me about events at Winters Hall. Do you remember Winters Hall? He told me about a bunch of families there that now--. Did you live down there when the Atchison Village was built there?DURAN: We were on B Street.
WASHBURN: Atchison Village was right next to that. When you came, was it already
there, or was it being built?DURAN: I think it was built after. I don't remember it being there when we first came.
01:18:00WASHBURN: Sal described that it was more open. He said he had some goats and a
cow that he would take over to the field where the Atchison Village is there, and he would graze them there. He said it was a lot different than it was now. I'm just trying to get a sense of the differences. What can you describe about the housing and what families were hanging out?DURAN: In fact, my first girlfriend was his niece or his cousin or something
like that. My first girlfriend lived in that Santa Fe track--what do you call those houses?WASHBURN: He called it section housing.
DURAN: Section housing.
WASHBURN: La séccion.
DURAN: His sister, I think, lived there. My first girlfriend I met here, she
01:19:00lived there.SILVAS: We lived on Second Street.
WASHBURN: You had a network of friends?
DURAN: No, not many friends. I've never really--
SILVAS: Actually, we went to church. Those were our friends.
WASHBURN: Tell me about the church. The church was on B and Barrett.
SILVAS: Mm-hmm. My brother was the minister there.
WASHBURN: So you guys lived right down the street on B.
DURAN: Round the corner.
SILVAS: Then, after that, we lived on our own and we went to live on Second Street.
WASHBURN: Did all the people who went to the church there live right in that neighborhood?
DURAN: Not necessarily. Some came from North Richmond. A couple of families, I think.
01:20:00WASHBURN: How big was the church? How many members?
SILVAS: Did Josie live where she's living right now?
DURAN: No, she lived across from the Rios there on Second Street.
WASHBURN: How many people were in the church?
SILVAS: Generally from fifty to sixty. There weren't too many at the time.
WASHBURN: Were services in Spanish?
DURAN: Mm-hmm.
NORMA: I wonder if Albert had his store right there on B?
SILVAS: No, Maravilla--
DURAN: No, Albert. Just right across the street from where we lived, remember?
On B StreetSILVAS: Oh, he used to make bread.
NORMA: And tortillas.
WASHBURN: Yeah, somebody said there was a tortilla--was that Don Roberto's
01:21:00Tortilla Factory? Josie's niece told me there was one right there, on B street and G. [interruption]WASHBURN: I'm trying to understand, places like Alberto's tortilla factory and
01:22:00La Maravilla and section housing--things like this which aren't there anymore but you guys remember being there--what do you guys remember about different stores there?SILVAS: My brother Gus is the one that opened La Maravilla.
WASHBURN: Was the Mexican community there big enough to have three or four
Maravillas? Was there more stores that that?DURAN: No, I don't think so.
SILVAS: It was the only one.
DURAN: There was El Ranchito next door, across the street from the Maravilla.
One was a regular grocery store, and the one that my brother had was more Mexican products and stuff like that.WASHBURN: So there were only two stores from your family, or there were only two
Mexican stores down there at all?DURAN: The Maravilla was from our family--the other one was somebody
else's--people that had been there for years. I don't remember any other store. 01:23:00At that time.SILVAS: I don't either.
WASHBURN: Down there, Sal Chavez lived in the Santa Fe housing down there, and
your family lived on B Street and in the area--SILVAS: And then on Second.
WASHBURN: And on Second Street--
SILVAS: When we moved away from living with the boys.
WASHBURN: I know Josie lived down there too, so I'm trying to understand. A lot
of the black families that lived in Richmond moved to North Richmond when they came here. I'm trying to understand whether, if you had a Mexican family like yourselves who came to Richmond during that time, did they move down to that neighborhood, and whether the neighborhood got bigger?SILVAS: Not then. After the years I bought my house my house--it was on Bissell
01:24:00[Avenue]-- It used to belong to an American fireman, but there were colored all over the place. Now, the colored people are going gone and the Mexicans are coming in.WASHBURN: Changing.
DURAN: You know, when I used to work in the shipyards at midnight, I used to
walk from, say, B Street all the way to Cutting [Boulevard], no problem, at midnight. By myself. I don't go to Safeway now in the daytime. [laughs] It's awful.SILVAS: I always worked day shift, so it was morning. I had to get up at four,
five o'clock in the morning to get to the shipyard at seven to start working. I 01:25:00was always, always early--[interruption]WASHBURN: So you remember Richmond being a lot safer.
SILVAS: Oh yes.
DURAN: There was so many people. You couldn't even walk on the sidewalk.
SILVAS: Like, she said she walked during the night, I walked in the morning,
because we started work at seven.DURAN: There was three shifts seven days a week. There were loads of people. I
felt safe.SILVAS: Just one day, I worked three shifts, but that was it. I was so tired.
WASHBURN: So, because there were a lot of people, you felt safe? Would you say that?
01:26:00DURAN: There was always men and women, going back and forth to work.
SILVAS: Yeah, it wasn't like a desert. That downtown was like New York.
WASHBURN: Tell me about the downtown. It was always active?
DURAN: Oh yes.
SILVAS: You couldn't walk. You couldn't get in the buses--it was so full.
DURAN: Packed, everything. And everywhere we went we could hardly get through.
SILVAS: That's why I never took the bus. I always walked.
DURAN: To the shipyard?
SILVAS: Mm-hmm.
WASHBURN: Somebody else told me the exact same thing.
SILVAS: I always walked because those buses were-- full.
DURAN: Jam-packed.
SILVAS: Jam-packed.
DURAN: Well, I didn't take the bus because it was midnight.
WASHBURN: So what stores were downtown that you guys remember were popular?
DURAN: Macy's. Penny's.
01:27:00SILVAS: Smith's.
DURAN: Kress. Dollar Store. Woolworths. We had two movie theatres.
NORMA: Fox Theatre?
DURAN: Fox and Costa and the Rio. Three.
WASHBURN: It seems different, because people would think, nowadays, if a lot of
people move into some town, and a lot of new people come, that scares people. That's the impression I get. They think all these newcomers are going to cause trouble. What do you guys think?SILVAS: In our time, we didn't think of those things, because everybody was
working. They didn't have no time to be looting or nothing. This looting became afterwards. 01:28:00DURAN: After there was nothing to do.
SILVAS: After the war.
DURAN: Too much free time.
WASHBURN: Tell me about the changes. Did you see the changes that took place in
Richmond once the shipyards closed down?SILVAS: Oh yes. All the people went away.
WASHBURN: Where did you guys find work?
SILVAS: I worked in San Francisco. I used to work in a glove manufacturing
company, and Beams Bag Company. And I used to work for--no. That's it for San Francisco. I didn't work here in Richmond because there were no jobs in Richmond. 01:29:00DURAN: We all had to go to San Francisco. I worked in lots of places.
WASHBURN: Where did you work after the war?
DURAN: I worked at the Beams factory where they make those sacks for beans and
rice. They make them. I worked for an envelope company. I worked in a luggage company where they make those Samsonite suitcases.WASHBURN: Was this in Richmond?
DURAN: San Francisco.
WASHBURN: So a lot of people worked in San Francisco.
DURAN: Mm-hmm.
WASHBURN: You don't think you guys both worked there because you were sisters?
NARRATORS: No.
WASHBURN: Did you know other people who were doing the same thing?
DURAN: A lot of people, just like now. Go on BART to Oakland and San
Francisco--same thing. The closest job I had-- was in Emeryville. I used to work 01:30:00for Marchants, where they make these adding machines.SILVAS: I worked for the canneries.
WASHBURN: Tell me about that. There's the F and P [Felice and Perelli] Cannery, right?
SILVAS: Yeah, here in Richmond.
WASHBURN: Did you work there just after the war?
SILVAS: Yeah, after the war.
WASHBURN: In the forties? How much after the war?
SILVAS: I would say towards the end of the forties, maybe the beginning of the fifties.
WASHBURN: So what did you do there?
SILVAS: You know the peaches? You put them in the machine to cut them in half
and take the core off. You put the peach like that in the machine. 01:31:00WASHBURN: And the core would come out?
SILVAS: Yes and cut in half. That's what I used to do.
WASHBURN: Somebody described to me that at the F and P Cannery, a bunch of women
would sit around a table and work together. Did you work around a table with other women?SILVAS: Yeah, taking out the fruit that wasn't good--take them out, separate them.
WASHBURN: Did you meet other women there who had worked in the shipyards?
SILVAS: I don't remember. There were a lot of women--like I say, we weren't too
sociable. We were too busy to sociable with other people. We finished the job and we were ready to come home. We ran to take our aprons off and out we went. 01:32:00[laughs] We were ready to get home, because the job is hard. In a cannery, it's hard. Then, I worked for the jelly company, where they make jellies.WASHBURN: In Richmond?
SILVAS: No, in Berkeley.
DURAN: Heinz?
SILVAS: No, Heinz is the cannery. I worked for Heinz too.
DURAN: Me too. "Seventy flavors."
WASHBURN: You worked at a cannery also? So did you think that this was something
that both men and women did after the war, or did it seem like mostly women did it?SILVAS: There were a lot of women that worked after-- in whatever you could.
WASHBURN: Do you think it was mostly women that did that, or men and women?
SILVAS: Both, because my husband worked in the cannery also.
DURAN: I never really faced anything where I could say, I didn't get the job
01:33:00because they were prejudiced or anything like that. I always felt free and relaxed.WASHBURN: Prejudice because you are a woman, or prejudice because you are Mexican?
DURAN: Mexican.
SILVAS: I didn't have that problem here, in my job. My boss, when I worked in
the glove manufacturing company, it was like a post office job. The merchandise--we would put it in boxes, and put the postage and weigh it, just like a post office job.WASHBURN: I'm interested in what all your siblings did for housing. It seemed
01:34:00like when you guys came to Richmond at the beginning, you said you stayed with somebody in the railroad housing, and then found a place with your brother. Rosa, you said you found a place with Alberto.DURAN: We bought a house.
WASHBURN: Tell me--you were renting for a while--when did you guys first buy a house?
SILVAS: I don't remember--do you remember? The three of us, and Katie, we were
four sisters--DURAN: --and we lived together--
SILVAS: --on Second Street by ourselves.
DURAN: We rented the neighbor basement for a while. Then these people moved out.
They sold the house to us and we bought it. We stayed there until we all went 01:35:00our own way and got married.WASHBURN: Just you and the four sisters bought the house? Or you and some of the
brothers bought the house?SILVAS: No, just the sisters.
WASHBURN: Just the sisters. That's interesting. So you guys lived together
during the war?NARRATORS: Mm-hmm.
WASHBURN: Just the women?
NARRATORS: Mm-hmm.
SILVAS: After a year or so, my brother Albert came to live with us.
DURAN: Because his wife was coming from Mexico.
SILVAS: Yeah, his wife was coming from Mexico during that time.
WASHBURN: So, none of you guys were married at that time.
DURAN: No.
WASHBURN: You guys were all single. But Frank was married, so he was living with
his wife in a separate house. Roberto, was he married?DURAN: Oh yeah.
WASHBURN: Did he come with his wife from Phoenix?
01:36:00DURAN: No, but it was not very long after when we came to Richmond, his wife
came from Mexico.SILVAS: When he graduated from the seminary, they sent him to Puebla, Mexico.
There's where he found his wife and married over there in Mexico. And had two or three children over there, too, before he came back to the U.S.WASHBURN: Where did Alberto meet his wife?
NARRATORS: Mexico, Chihuahua.
WASHBURN: Bob--was he married at that time also, when he was working the shipyards?
DURAN: I think he married at that time.
01:37:00WASHBURN: How did he meet his wife?
SILVAS: He married--
DURAN: Josie's sister.
WASHBURN: That's the connection. How did he meet Josie's sister?
DURAN: At church.
WASHBURN: At church.
NORMA: Josie was the piano player.
WASHBURN: Her sister was from Santa Barbara.
DURAN: Right. That's Angie's mother.
WASHBURN: That leaves the last brother, Gus. What did Gus--
DURAN: Gus, after he finished working in the shipyards, he worked for Thrifty's,
as the pharmacist.SILVAS: Walgreens, I think it was.
DURAN: Thrifty's. It was Thrifty's.
WASHBURN: So did he meet his wife there?
SILVAS: Yeah, he meet his wife at the job.
DURAN: Gus? No he didn't. Mary came from Phoenix.
01:38:00SILVAS: [in Spanish]
DURAN: He's asking here.
WASHBURN: I'm asking here. So, Gus brought his wife from Phoenix also?
DURAN: Right.
WASHBURN: So let's talk about, if I can, where did you guys meet your husbands?
DURAN: I've known him since I was young girl. [laughter] We used to go to the
same church.WASHBURN: Here in Richmond?
DURAN: No, in Phoenix.
WASHBURN: How did he make his way out here?
SILVAS: He came to get her. [laughs] And his brother came to get me.
WASHBURN: So your husbands are brothers?
SILVAS: Yeah.
WASHBURN: So did they work in the shipyards also?
DURAN: No.
SILVAS: My husband did.
WASHBURN: Your husband did too?
DURAN: Mine worked at Rheem Manufacturing.
WASHBURN: It sounds like a whole clan of people came from Phoenix out here to Richmond.
01:39:00SILVAS: All my family did.
WASHBURN: Even aside from your siblings, some of their husbands and wives?
SILVAS: Yeah.
WASHBURN: So you met yours in Phoenix. What about Katie--where did Katie meet
her husband?SILVAS: Here.
WASHBURN: And he's not from Phoenix?
DURAN: He's from Mexico.
SILVAS: You mean, where she was born?
WASHBURN: No, where did Katie meet her husband?
DURAN: Here in Richmond.
WASHBURN: And that was the first time they met?
SILVAS: He was from Mexico.
WASHBURN: What was he doing here?
SILVAS: Working for Standard Oil. First, for Santa Fe, and then for Standard Oil.
WASHBURN: That leaves Trini.
DURAN: Trini--Trinidad. He lived behind our house.
01:40:00WASHBURN: Where did he work?
DURAN: He was a--
SILVAS: Longshoreman.
DURAN: Yeah. Stevedore. Longshoreman. And then they worked on the shipyard also.
WASHBURN: What was his name?
DURAN: Tony Carrico.
WASHBURN: Was he an Anglo guy, or was he a Mexican guy?
DURAN: Portuguese.
WASHBURN: Is she the only sibling that didn't marry someone else who was Mexican?
SILVAS: Gus was married to English-Dutch. The first marriage; the second
marriage, German. No, the first was Mexican.WASHBURN: Who's that? Gus?
SILVAS: There's a lot of--
WASHBURN: There's a lot of marriages -mixture.
SILVAS: Twelve different nationalities.
01:41:00WASHBURN: I'm just trying to figure out who came with who and everything.
NORMA: You need more paper than that. [laughter]
SILVAS: There are five generations.
WASHBURN: So did everybody end up buying a house down in that neighborhood near
B Street?DURAN: No.
SILVAS: I did.
WASHBURN: The four girls bought a house down there.
DURAN: No, not me.
WASHBURN: Or did you rent?
SILVAS: On Second Street.
DURAN: I didn't buy no house. I used to stay with Albert after. You bought the
house on Fourth and B Street.WASHBURN: You bought a house?
SILVAS: Mm-hmm. On Second Street.
DURAN: Oh, I'm sorry, I'm sorry. After we moved from B Street, we bought that
house on Second Street together--four girls.SILVAS: Yeah, four girls.
WASHBURN: So how did you guys all manage to buy the house on Second Street?
DURAN: We all worked.
01:42:00WASHBURN: The house wasn't too expensive that you couldn't afford it?
DURAN: Obviously with all three working, we could afford it.
WASHBURN: What can you tell me about the decision you guys made to buy the house?
DURAN: We just needed a place to stay.
WASHBURN: But you were already renting.
SILVAS: Because we wanted to be on our own. Then, after, I bought that house on
B Street with my brother. His wife came from Germany--the German wife--and he moved out. When she came, he moved out and bought another house and left me my house on Fourth Street. I lived there all the time until I got married. I went back to Phoenix.DURAN: She's still there.
SILVAS: I'm still there. I have my own place.
01:43:00WASHBURN: I don't know how it seems to you, but it seems pretty unique that four
women would come together and say, "Let's buy a house." There's no husbands there.DURAN: That's why. Because there was no husbands there.
WASHBURN: Nobody else there, just these four women who bought a house there. You
wouldn't find that today, so much.DURAN: We're sisters.
WASHBURN: Did you guys find that to be kind of different than what other people
were doing at the time?DURAN: To me, there was no difference. I didn't mix very much with anybody to know.
WASHBURN: You don't remember anyone saying, "Why isn't there a man living in
that house?"DURAN: No.
SILVAS: No, I didn't get married until--
DURAN: Katie got married first.
SILVAS: Katie got married first.
DURAN: Then Trini.
SILVAS: Then Trini. Then her. Then me.
WASHBURN: Did each person move out of the house once then got married?
01:44:00DURAN: Mm-hmm, and sold the house.
SILVAS: I bought in Bissell, 409 Bissell. I bought with my brother, that house.
WASHBURN: What was the address on Second Street?
SILVAS: 409 Bissell.
DURAN: On Second. Fourth and Bissell. The one she's talking about.
WASHBURN: Yeah, you bought 409 Bissell. What was the address of the Second
Street house?DURAN: 415 B Street.
WASHBURN: 415 B Street? But you said you bought on Second Street.
SILVAS: Oh, Second Street.
WASHBURN: 415 Second?
SILVAS: I don't remember the number, but I know it was Second Street.
WASHBURN: Okay. [interruption] We only have about ten more minutes, and, you
01:45:00know, one thing everybody did do who lived down there was move way. You lived down there on Bissell, on B Street, and you moved out here. Frank moved out to El Sobrante. Josie moved to El Cerrito. I know another woman who lived off Cutting and now she moved out to San Pablo.DURAN: My sister lives up way up by the golf course, that way.
WASHBURN: Did all of your sisters and brothers all stay down there for a while
and then move out?DURAN: Yeah, I would say. Mostly after the war.
SILVAS: Right after the war, it seemed like everybody scattered.
01:46:00DURAN: Because everybody had to find a job somewhere.
SILVAS: Most of my family stayed here. I was the only one in Phoenix, because my
husband--his mother and dad live in Phoenix, and he wanted to be where they were, so I had to leave. That's why I'm still over there.WASHBURN: Were you happy to go back to Phoenix?
SILVAS: Hmmm. [laughs]
DURAN: She's still there.
SILVAS: I'm still there. Of course, my husband died in '98. It's my house.
DURAN: I got married and that's what I got. [laughter]
01:47:00WASHBURN: When did you move out from that area of Richmond to this part of Richmond?
DURAN: I lived in Phoenix for seven years.
WASHBURN: So is that where you moved first once you moved from that area of Richmond?
DURAN: Mm-hmm.
SILVAS: Then she came here and I went back.
WASHBURN: Frank said he moved from down there in '75, I think, out to El
Sobrante, he said.SILVAS: Really? I don't know. Even my brother Bob lived there in El Sobrante too.
DURAN: But not in the same house. We all scattered.
SILVAS: Actually we didn't, because most of the family stayed here. Part of the
years, she was in Phoenix, and when I went, I stayed in Phoenix. Then she came 01:48:00back after Norma was born.NORMA: I was born here.
SILVAS: Oh, you were born here?
NORMA: In Richmond hospital.
WASHBURN: I guess that about wraps it up. Do you guys have anything else you
feel like you can tell me that I haven't asked that you think I would want to know? For instance, do you guys remember the Indians who lived there at the Santa Fe railroads, across the way, that lived in boxcars?DURAN: They were there when we lived on B Street, but I never went.
WASHBURN: But you remember them being down there. To finish things up, I asked
Sal Chavez to say, "Well, Sal, how many Mexican families do you think lived down 01:49:00in that area?" He said down in the Santa Fe railroads, the housing there, there were probably thirty families. Thirty different apartments, so he guessed thirty families or something like that. From what you guys are telling me and what other people are telling me, down there on First and Second and A and B and Barrett and Nevin--there seemed to be people who lived in that area.SILVAS: And they were Mexican.
WASHBURN: Right. I'm trying to figure out whether there was just a place where
people lived, or whether it was a--DURAN: A colony or something like that? It was an Indian camp.
WASHBURN: A kind of a colonia. Whether it was really a colonia, or whether it
was just something else. Would you guys describe it as a colonia?DURAN: Not really. I would say like any town, city. A regular neighborhood. But
01:50:00they were Mexicans.WASHBURN: Would you describe a colonia as being Mexicans in every single house
on the block? Was it that many?DURAN: Not in that area.
SILVAS: Not when we moved over here. There weren't any colored--just Americans
and Mexicans. Like I say, the house that I had at 409, it belonged to a fireman and he was American. We bought the house from him.DURAN: I understand that there was a lot of Italians before.
01:51:00SILVAS: And they move out. They move out, the color start coming in. Now they're
moving out and the Mexicans are coming in. More, you know.WASHBURN: Sure. Sal Chavez called it--what he would say to his friends, where he
lived, he called it la planta baja--where the section housing was, and where the people were. Do you guys ever remember calling your area by a certain name or anything like that?DURAN: Maybe it was just the men that got together.
SILVAS: For me, it was always Richmond.
DURAN: I never heard that. Guys get together; they have a tendency to-- say things.
01:52:00WASHBURN: It's been nice to speak with you guys because the men remember things
differently than women do, and women remember things differently than men do. That's a good observation. Do you guys have any pictures of that time around?NARRATORS: I do.
WASHBURN: You do?
DURAN: When we lived in that area?
WASHBURN: Yeah.
DURAN: Mm-hmm.
WASHBURN: Can I look at some? It's nine thirty. Maybe another time?
DURAN: Sure.
WASHBURN: I'd love to, because there aren't too many pictures for me to see,
really. Josie has a lot of the church. She has tons.SILVAS: Did you see them?
WASHBURN: Oh yeah.
SILVAS: I would like to see that.
WASHBURN: I have weddings and--.
DURAN: She was always a church person.
01:53:00SILVAS: She was the pianist too.
WASHBURN: She seemed to travel a lot too, huh? She would travel to the East Coast.
SILVAS: I traveled.
WASHBURN: When did you travel?
SILVAS: Between '71 and now. 2000. She traveled too. She's a traveler and I was
a traveler. My husband loved to travel.WASHBURN: Where did you guys travel?
SILVAS: She went to the Holy Land.
WASHBURN: To Jerusalem?
DURAN: Jerusalem. Egypt. Jordan. Greece, China.
WASHBURN: I've been to Israel and Egypt too.
SILVAS: Oh you have. And I've been to Europe six times.
WASHBURN: That's a lot of times. I've been to Europe before too, but not six times.
01:54:00SILVAS: Australia and New Zealand.
WASHBURN: Is that because your husband loved to travel?
SILVAS: Yeah. We went to Russia
WASHBURN: You went to Russia?
SILVAS: Moscow and St. Petersburg. We went to Finland--
WASHBURN: Did you guys go on tours? How did you guys do it?
SILVAS: Uh-huh. Two or three weeks. The first time we went, it was three weeks.
The second and the other times were only ten days. The last time was three weeks. We went to the Scandinavian countries. Have you ever been to the 01:55:00Scandinavian countries?WASHBURN: No.
SILVAS: It's right next to St. Petersburg, but you have to cross the Baltic Sea.
You sleep in those big--WASHBURN: Cruise ships?
SILVAS: Yeah. Overnight--two nights before you get into Finland.
WASHBURN: You left Phoenix in '42, and you left in '43. When was the first time,
Evelyn, that you remember going back to Phoenix?DURAN: '45.
WASHBURN: '45? Why did you go back?
DURAN: Because I wanted to. [laughter]
WASHBURN: That's a great answer! Did you go back for someone's wedding? Did you
01:56:00go back to visit?DURAN: No, nobody's wedding. [laughter] I'm sorry, I didn't mean to...
WASHBURN: No, that's fine. Sometimes you can't describe something. "Why'd you do
it?" "I don't know; I wanted to do it. Why do I need a reason?" You just went back to visit your sister?DURAN: That's when I met Troubles.
NORMA: My dad.
[laughter]
WASHBURN: So you went back in '45 and met your husband.
DURAN: I didn't meet because I knew him practically all my life but that's
when--we started courting.NORMA: Trouble started.
DURAN: Trouble started, right. [laughter]
SILVAS: And I married his brother in '69.
01:57:00WASHBURN: When was the first time you remember going back to Phoenix, after '43?
SILVAS: When my brother graduated from the seminary in 1936.
WASHBURN: No, after you came.
SILVAS: Oh, from here? I got married, but I got married '69, but I had gone back
and forth when my mother was still living. Afterwards, she lived over there and I went back and forth.WASHBURN: Well, I'm trying to think, because Josie told me she went back to
Santa Barbara all the time. Santa Barbara is a lot closer.SILVAS: That's the same way I did. I went back and forth. I lived in Los Angeles
01:58:00for three years while my brother was a seminary student. After he graduated, I went back to Phoenix and stayed in Phoenix.WASHBURN: So after the shipyards you went to Los Angeles for a while.
SILVAS: I went back and forth, but I don't remember the dates and the years.
WASHBURN: That's a lot to remember.
NARRATORS: [laughter]
WASHBURN: You guys' memories are pretty good.
01:59:00SILVAS: I do remember that--
DURAN: When you were asking about dates and all that, I said, you remember what
date? You remember more dates than I do.NORMA: Yeah, she does. You have a good memory.
DURAN: That was okay. We needed a little laugh.
WASHBURN: Yeah, it was too serious for a while. Thank you, you guys. You guys
have been great to talk to--really fun to talk to. I just asked because I wanted to see--SILVAS: Can you give me your address?
WASHBURN: Oh, for sure.
SILVAS: I would like to have--.
WASHBURN: Tapes of these?
SILVAS: Yeah.
WASHBURN: The duplicates? Of course. I'll give you my address. I wanted to see
02:00:00how connected you guys stayed to Phoenix. It seems like you kind of did stay pretty connected with where you came from. You didn't completely break off.DURAN: No, we're still there. My oldest daughter still lives there. And she
(Silvas) lives there.SILVAS: I live there.
WASHBURN: Do you know anybody else who moved back there after living here too?
DURAN: No.
WASHBURN: So what happened with the church? The church moved from down there on
Barrett to Twenty-seventh.DURAN: Thirty-seventh.
WASHBURN: Oh, thirty-seventh.
SILVAS: They sold the old one.
WASHBURN: They moved from Thirty-seventh after that, and now where are they?
02:01:00DURAN: Part of them are over here in Yuba [Street].
WASHBURN: Part of who?
DURAN: Part of the people.
WASHBURN: The church?
DURAN: Mm-hmm.
WASHBURN: But where is the actual physical church?
DURAN: Where Josie goes.
WASHBURN: Right.
DURAN: She's from the old church. On Yuba, over here. I don't know exactly. I
don't know the address but I know it's on Yuba.SILVAS: But we used to go to that church on Jefferson St. in Phoenix.
WASHBURN: Did you guys know anybody in Richmond who went to St. Mark's? The
Catholic Church, St. Mark's?SILVAS: In Phoenix?
WASHBURN: No, Richmond. Do you remember having friends who went there? Knowing
02:02:00anybody who went there?DURAN: I probably did, but I don't recall. Some of the people we did know have
passed on.WASHBURN: Yeah, for sure. Well, I want to show you guys this. I want to take
this out and look at this. [opens bag and unfolds map] There's the church on Barrett and B. I don't know why I marked that. Where is Bissell? Your house was on Bissell and what?SILVAS: 409 Bissell.
WASHBURN: That's in between four and five, huh? You guys rented at 415 B Street,
02:03:00which is right here. It's right there.SILVAS: Now where is the shipyard on here?
WASHBURN: The shipyard is right here. Shipyard Number Three.
SILVAS: Oh. And Number One?
WASHBURN: Here's Ford, and I don't know where Number One went. I think Number
One was up here. The F and P Cannery is right down here too, on Tenth, right?DURAN: Felice and Perelli
WASHBURN: Right. This is an old map from 1948. I got it copied.
DURAN: Where is Cutting? We were right on Cutting and Fourth.
WASHBURN: What was on Cutting and Fourth?
02:04:00DURAN: That was the shipyard. Number One.
WASHBURN: It's right here. The Santa Fe housing was right here, right across the
street from you guys?SILVAS: Across the railroad tracks. Is there any railroad tracks there?
DURAN: No, no, no, no.
SILVAS: No?
DURAN: Nevin and Garrard.
WASHBURN: Nevin and Garrard, between Garrard and C?
DURAN: And Macdonald.
WASHBURN: Between Garrard and Macdonald, right here.
NORMA: Where Atchison Village is now?
DURAN: No.
WASHBURN: But right next door. Here's Atchison Village and here's the Santa Fe
housing. Do you guys remember when Atchison Village was built?DURAN: I don't.
SILVAS: I don't either.
WASHBURN: I think it was built right when you guys moved there--maybe right afterwards.
02:05:00DURAN: Probably.
WASHBURN: Quite a little area. Quite a time to live in Richmond. Thank you very
much, you guys.[End of Interview]
