Angelina Alexandre | Interview 1 | January 17, 2005

RIGELHAUPT: Okay, so we're on. It's January 17th, 2005. I'm in Ripon, California, and I'm doing an oral history interview with Angelina Alexandre.

ALEXANDRE: Mm-hmm.

RIGELHAUPT: And normally, the way I start, with just a very straight-ahead question, if you could state your full name and your date of birth.

ALEXANDRE: Angelina Alexandre, born February 20th, 1919.

RIGELHAUPT: And could you talk a little bit about your earlier childhood, where you grew up, and if you could describe it a little bit.

ALEXANDRE: I came from a family of eleven. We were seven girls, counting myself, and my four brothers. My mother was forty-one and dad was forty-nine. And we lived during the Depression days. Life wasn't easy. My dad passed away in '49. 00:01:00That left us with just my mother, and my mother was a very stern woman. [pause]

I can say that my brother, before he went to the service, he said he had a confession to make and I thought, 'Oh, that must be terrible.' No, he said he opened a jar of peaches and he had washed the jar and put it in mother's jars and mother said, "No wonder my peaches were all gone." But he said he was hungry, and he'd go take them. But that was before he went to the service. [laughs]

You look back, and we were a happy family. It wasn't easy, my sisters worked really hard. That was the Depression time.

RIGELHAUPT: So, you were born in 1919 and say, like, the first five years of your life, in the early twenties, where was your family living?

ALEXANDRE: In Merced, California. I was born in Merced, California. I was a native of California.

RIGELHAUPT: And, in those days--well, let's just stick with the decade of the twenties before the Depression came. What was a typical day like for your father in the twenties?

ALEXANDRE: Well, it wasn't like it is now. My sisters worked like men. He had contracts for Gallo wines. We'd move to Modesto, rent a house over there. Life wasn't easy, but mother would cook like, say, big soup, and in a big pan she would make bread, corn bread. But always people came with their families. I 00:03:00don't know how mother made that food stretch but it always stretched.

RIGELHAUPT: And where are you in the birth order with your siblings?

ALEXANDRE: It was my brother, and I was the seventh girl. And after the seventh girl, there was three boys after myself. My brother was four when my dad passed away, not quite four. So, there was eleven of us. [pause]

RIGELHAUPT: And your parents, could you talk a little bit about where your mother was born and where your father was born?

ALEXANDRE: Well, I can say that my mother was born in Mexico, she came to this country when she was eighteen, after she married my father. My father also--I believe my mother was born in Veracruz, when she talks about it. And my father 00:04:00was from Michoacan. From what I can remember.

RIGELHAUPT: So, both your parents were born in Mexico.

ALEXANDRE: They were born in Mexico.

RIGELHAUPT: And do you remember hearing about their immigration to the Central Valley?

ALEXANDRE: Oh, my mother said that it was very easy for her to come. I think at that time it was just one cent when she came to this country. A lot of people, they called it El Norte, the North. And I think in that town of Merced, there were only three Mexican families which were the Belmontes, the Alvarez, and the Guiterrez. And California was beautiful. Mother said the cattle used to run and the land was altogether different than it is now. Open fields, a lot of poppies, 00:05:00and a lot of flowers.

RIGELHAUPT: Do you remember what year--did you parents meet in Mexico and move together?

ALEXANDRE: They moved together.

RIGELHAUPT: And do you remember when that was?

ALEXANDRE: Oh God, I don't remember when that was. [laughs]

RIGELHAUPT: Well, had they had children?

ALEXANDRE: No. My brother always said he crossed the line. My oldest brother, he was born in this country. We were all eleven born in Merced, California.

RIGELHAUPT: And you said your father died young.

ALEXANDRE: Very young.

RIGELHAUPT: And what did he do for a living before that?

ALEXANDRE: He branded horses and at that time, he made ropes. He mostly worked 00:06:00with cattle. At the time when they came, there was a lot of that at that time.

RIGELHAUPT: And you said a number of your siblings worked for--?

ALEXANDRE: Gallo wines--[doorbell rings]--Oh God.

RIGELHAUPT: That's okay, I can just pause it.

[interview interruption]

RIGELHAUPT: Okay, so go ahead.

ALEXANDRE: At that time, they used to call them vaqueros. So that's what my father was. He's be in parades in Merced. And he always let one of those really loud--hollered. And he always carried the Mexican flag. And there were American flags and horses. And he and the horse would carry the Mexican flag.

RIGELHAUPT: Oh, and just before the doorbell rang, I was asking about your 00:07:00siblings who worked for Gallo wines.

ALEXANDRE: Oh, yes! They worked for Gallo wines. My dad used to get contracts. At that time, I never got to work because I was one of the youngest, but five sisters walked out that door with a blue shirt and Levi's. At that time, people didn't wear those blue jeans like they do now. And my sisters would go early in the morning and come when you couldn't see another grape. So, they would leave early in the morning and we would go into--when he would have maybe a contract in Modesto, they would rent a house in Modesto.

RIGELHAUPT: And wine-making--

ALEXANDRE: For Gallo wines.

RIGELHAUPT: But it was seasonal work. So--

ALEXANDRE: That was seasonal work. And that's the way--or they worked in the canneries when there was cannery. And in the wintertime, it was really rough. It 00:08:00was really foggy at that time. The only thing they could do would be when they pruned the trees, that's about all they could really work in because that was bad at that time.

RIGELHAUPT: So, you recall as a young child that the family income was seasonal.

ALEXANDRE: Yes, and like, in the summertime, mother would can, like, peaches, apricots, tomatoes. And when my sisters worked hard, in a room they would have the flour, the rice to eat in the wintertime. That's the way that you could survive all those months. Big sack of beans, flour, you name it. And so that's the way we used to have the wintertime, rice, macaroni, sacks of flour.

RIGELHAUPT: Was there any extended family around the area or was it just your immediate family?

ALEXANDRE: A lot of widows just down the block! Isn't that funny? The men died and the women lived.

RIGELHAUPT: There were widows, you said.

ALEXANDRE: They were widows, down the block of my house.

RIGELHAUPT: Do you--do you know why there were a number of widows?

ALEXANDRE: I don't know but it seems like the men would die and the women would live. So, I know that next to us, he passed away. He worked for the cement company. And then, next to them, another man died. And all you could see was the widows, women getting out there and talking once in a while.

RIGELHAUPT: So, were they job-related accidents? Or, you don't remember hearing about some of the men in your neighborhood--?

ALEXANDRE: No, uh-uh.

RIGELHAUPT: So, could you talk a little bit about what your neighborhood was like in Manteca?

ALEXANDRE: Well, it was a sad neighborhood. I mean, at our house it was always happy because one was playing the harmonica, the other was playing the guitar, and there was always a lot of music around the house. Or, I'd have one of my sisters scraping the pot of the mush that mother used to get. Carnation mush because we always got a plate!

RIGELHAUPT: Carnation mush, I don't know what that--.

ALEXANDRE: Well, it was a box and it said "Carnation Mush" at that time, and it had, like, a red carnation on it. And you'd get a plate, either a cup or a plate, and it'd have a carnation on it. That was years ago. That's why you 00:11:00haven't heard of it. [laughs]

RIGELHAUPT: [pause] I was wondering if you could talk a little bit about some of your memories from school as a child?

ALEXANDRE: As a school? Well, I'll tell you one thing. You learned the ABC's, the sounds. And the sounds have really helped me with my Spanish. Because I'll sound it in English and then it will be easy to say in Spanish. I had some very good teachers. Some of those teachers were there for years. I mean, you didn't have a lot of change. We lived two blocks from school, we'd run home to have lunch--what was called lunch--and run back. So, we were about two blocks from school. I had some very good teachers I could say.

RIGELHAUPT: Do you remember a favorite subject at school?

ALEXANDRE: Well, I'll tell you. I used to sing in school. I used to love to sing. And so, we had singing classes. And Mrs. Clark, she was always our music teacher. And that's one of the subjects that I like the most [laughing] was singing. [pause]

RIGELHAUPT: And you said your siblings worked for Gallo but you--?

ALEXANDRE: I was too young then to work. The older ones--not my brother, he worked for a French grocery--but my sisters. That were Louise, Carmen, Catalina, Helen, and Francis. All those five, they worked for Gallo wines. That was hard work.

RIGELHAUPT: Did you have any jobs while you were growing up?

ALEXANDRE: Oh, yeah, I sorted tomato--I mean fig--for A.E. Montgomery. The men were very nice. It was cold lots of times in the wintertime, about November we'd have to sort out figs and then make a little bonfire. In fact, {Eris?} which would be his grandfather would fix me what they call taquitos in Spanish. And they were very nice. I have good memories.

RIGELHAUPT: [pause] So do you remember a distinct change in how your family was living as the Depression started? You probably would have been about eleven or twelve.

ALEXANDRE: I was around twelve, thirteen.

RIGELHAUPT: Could you talk a little bit about how you remember things changing?

ALEXANDRE: Well, there was a big change in the family.

[long silence]

RIGELHAUPT: Now you said there were three Mexican families in Manteca when your parents arrived.

ALEXANDRE: No, not in Manteca, Merced.

RIGELHAUPT: Merced, I'm sorry. In Merced. Do you remember more migration coming, more families--no?

ALEXANDRE: No, that was the only--well, a lot of people didn't come in from Mexico those years. Very few--they call it The North--and my mother was a very 00:15:00young lady when she came. And the people, some had passed on, one or two maybe are still living. [pause]

RIGELHAUPT: Well, in this letter here, it says you got married New Years Eve in 1938. Before we get to your wedding, could you talk a little bit about how you met your future husband and perhaps--?

ALEXANDRE: Through the families, they knew each other. That's how I met him, mm-hmm.

RIGELHAUPT: And how long were you courting before you got married?

ALEXANDRE: [laughs] I can't remember. Oh, about a year.

RIGELHAUPT: Could you talk a little bit about your wedding?

ALEXANDRE: Oh, just a natural type of a wedding that everybody else has, relations and food and things like that.

RIGELHAUPT: Now, after you got married, did you move?

ALEXANDRE: Yeah. We moved here. Like you say, he left nineteen years of railroad retirement back there. He really did it for our three children that we had at that time. That's how he came to the railroad and didn't go to the shipyards. Remember when I went to {Atchison?} Village how I happened to go to work--a lady next door to me, her name was {Shimmel?}, and she worked for I think it was yard 00:17:00three. And you'd hear on the radio when they'd say, "the old and the young should go out to work." I had two brothers in the service at that time. Later, I had nephews that went in the service. I was very proud so I went to work. That's how I started at Ford Motor. The first time I ever joined a union was with Ford Motor Company. In fact, I think I have the withdrawal cards in the paper there.

RIGELHAUPT: Okay. Before we get there, now, so your husband was also, you wrote, also a native or Mexico.

ALEXANDRE: Yes.

RIGELHAUPT: And was he in {Needles?} when you got married?

ALEXANDRE: Yes, I left Merced to go to Needles, California. And there is where lots of times, they were so short of men, if he was home, they would come after him for him to go to work. And during the wartime especially, they put a lot of hours. And that's why the railroad was hard to have men to work out there. So that's why he would work at night, on the nightshifts. When the trains would go by, he worked down in a pit. So when he came he left nineteen seniority--Topeka--the railroad he left for nineteen years. He had to start as a new man when he came to Richmond. And he said, "The only reason I'll go to work for you is if I get a house across the street." And at that time, they had so 00:19:00many houses, just for the shipyards, for the railroad, and that's how I went to 126 West Bissell. And went to work from there.

Now, am I skipping about the rides back and forth?

RIGELHAUPT: No, it's okay. I'm just going to stay backwards a little bit more. How did your husband emigrate? And how did he settle in Needles, California?

ALEXANDRE: Oh, I'll tell you. His mother was the widow, had my husband and two girls. Then her sister passed away and the brother passed away. That left her six--three girls and three boys. So with her three and that six, the way she 00:20:00came, emigrated, one of the uncles met her on the road. And then in Needles, California, she had two brothers that worked for the roundhouse. And that's how she got to Needles, California. With three of her own children and six of the other. She didn't have a life very easy. She used to make lunches for all these men that were [working] and they sold bread. One of the uncles made bread and the other one newspapers. And this is how he emigrated to this country, to Needles, California.

RIGELHAUPT: So, his mother's uncles worked at the roundhouse. I don't know what the "roundhouse" is.

ALEXANDRE: Yea, the roundhouse, they called it where all the trains go in. That's called the roundhouse. Two of her brothers worked there. The one that had the bakery and--. They sent for her, a widow with six, seven, eight children! 00:21:00And her a widow. That's how they immigrated into that town.

RIGELHAUPT: And so how old was your husband when he moved to Needles?

ALEXANDRE: I don't know. I have a picture of his but--he was a young boy I would say, about--I'm not good about ages but--[phone rings]--I'm busy! [shouts to a third person somewhere in the house] In case somebody is calling.

I really don't know because I was nineteen when I got married and he was thirty-one.

RIGELHAUPT: Did he talk about what it was like growing up in Needles?

ALEXANDRE: Oh, yes, it was rough! It was rough. Like, they had bread hat they 00:22:00used to sell; the ice--it was different, you don't have a refrigerator--ice, that kind of ice. He had it rough. And his step-father--his mother got married--and his step-father took him to the railroad and he used to--bolts, that how he started. He was not quite seventeen when he started working for the railroad. And he worked all--they worked Saturdays and Sundays.

RIGELHAUPT: So, after you got married, at the end of 1938, did you spend much time in Needles before moving to Richmond?

ALEXANDRE: We must have--when we moved to Richmond my son was--let's see he was born in '43. About '44 we must have come into Richmond.

RIGELHAUPT: So you lived in Needles for about five years.

ALEXANDRE: I'll tell you, it was hot. [laughs]

RIGELHAUPT: Hotter than Merced?

ALEXANDRE: Oh, yes. You could open the door and it looks like you're opening the oven door at six o'clock in the afternoon. It is hot. You could put clothes out on the line and when you come back to get the other batch, those were dry. [laughs]

RIGELHAUPT: So while you were living in Needles, World War II started.

ALEXANDRE: Oh, yes. That's when the war started. And he began to work many hours. Like I tell you, the Japanese was the last ones--I talked to the government man and he said, "These are the last ones we're taking out the camp." Of course, they held them up there a long time.

RIGELHAUPT: So before we get there, what do you remember about hearing about 00:24:00after Pearl Harbor happened?

ALEXANDRE: Well, I'll tell you, I used to hear those Japanese in the camps laughing away, they used to get big boxes of I don't know, whatever came in there. I think because they had attacked that they thought they were going to win, but they got fooled. But that's the only thing--difference I used to hear because you never went into their camp. You went by it. Because they were all fenced in with big trees and the American flag and everything. But at night, you'd see these big black cars drive in there, I don't know where they came from. But you never went into their camps.

RIGELHAUPT: So when you say "camps," were these also railroad workers?

ALEXANDRE: They worked for the railroad, all of them. Every many that lived in that Japanese camp worked for the railroad. They were machinists. They held all 00:25:00of the top jobs in that town.

RIGELHAUPT: Until--?

ALEXANDRE: Until the government come and they took 'em away. Then, these other fellows got to go into their jobs. Otherwise, they were there for life.

RIGELHAUPT: So, from the way you described it, even before Pearl Harbor workers of different workers were somewhat separated by camps, it sounds like.

ALEXANDRE: Oh, let me tell you, I went to a theater one day. And the girl was going to put me by the Indians and the few blacks and the Mexicans to one side. And I told the girl in the flashlight, "I'm not going to sit over there! I want to sit where I feel like sitting." [in a loud and proud voice] And my husband said, "Angie, that's the way they do here." [in a quiet sotto voce voice]

I said, "Well, I was born and raised here and I sit down in this theater wherever I want to sit." The girl didn't tell me nothing. I sat where I wanted 00:26:00to sit. And I said, "If you want to go sit, you go over there, but I'm coming over here." [laughs]

RIGELHAUPT: So, in some ways it sounds like--

ALEXANDRE: Well, there was a lot of discrimination. And I wasn't for it 'cuz I was born and raised in Merced and nobody discriminates me.

RIGELHAUPT: When you say discrimination, can you say more about how that worked?

ALEXANDRE: Oh! That was the first time I had ever approached anything like that. So, to me, it wasn't right. And I say the next door neighbor, the lady made her living by selling wine--at that time, they didn't sell wine to the Indians. And they'd knock at my gate and I'd tell 'em, "Next door!" And so they'd go next door and she'd sell 'em wine because they never sold, during the war, they never 00:27:00sold to the Indians. Everything changed after.

RIGELHAUPT: So, trying to imagine before the war, it sounds like in Needles, everyone, all the different racial groups that make up California lived there--

ALEXANDRE: I used to say it was Payton Place! That's what I called it. You didn't know if that one was related to that one or this one was related to--I called it Payton Place! [laughs]

RIGELHAUPT: Could you say more what you mean about Payton Place?

ALEXANDRE: Well, one would say, "That's really my father." The other one would say, "That isn't my father." It was a mixture, I think. [laughs]

RIGELHAUPT: So everyone who lived in California was represented in Needles.

ALEXANDRE: Well, I wouldn't say that, but to me, going from Merced, I saw a big difference in that little town. I wasn't used to that.

RIGELHAUPT: The other thing I read about was that during the thirties lots of 00:28:00white folks from Oklahoma and Arkansas--

ALEXANDRE: Oh yeah, they come to Ford Motor Company. Like, there was a judge. I used to ride with Roxy, that was her name, that was the wife of the judge. And I said, "How come they call him the judge?" "Well," she says, "I'm from Oklahoma, and back home, he was the judge." And you know what? He happened to be the guard at Ford Motor Company, a very nice, intelligent man in his uniform. And I would pay for my ride. Because I had a sister-in-law that worked for me, she was always late. So I'd pay Roxy for my ride, I'd get a cab and I'd go to work. Because I didn't drive at the time.

RIGELHAUPT: But do you remember people moving from Oklahoma and Arkansas while you lived in Merced or Needles?

ALEXANDRE: Oh, no, no. No, no. I found all that when I came back and started working at Ford. Oklahoma, Arkansas, they never gave us a paycheck. We had a 00:29:00little envelope like you see only smaller than that manila envelope, that yellow--and then there would be a bill of maybe twenty dollars, twenty-five or whatever it was and change. We got in line, it was like an armored truck, we'd give our card number, and in there we'd say how many hours and we got our pay. Why? Because there was a lot of people from Arkansas, Oklahoma. You know Kaiser brought a lot of blacks over here at that time, the Kaisers. So, you couldn't go cash a check, there was too many people from out of state.

RIGELHAUPT: So, staying back right around 1941 for another moment, what do you remember about the news coverage after Pearl Harbor was bombed?

ALEXANDRE: Well, at that time, I was too busy with my children, I didn't hear 00:30:00too much about it. But I used to--as I'd go out, I'd see the Japanese. See, they hadn't taken them off yet. There was still news going on about that. So that was when we made our move. But, like I tell you, those houses--that was the last ones that left Needles. I was talking to the fella from the government and he says, "Well, these are the last ones from California that are going out."

To me, I think it was terrible. They couldn't do that now. Uh-uh. They were intelligent people, they didn't bother anybody. It was hard on them I think. Dorothy would write to me and I thought it was best not to write because I might say something to interfere our country. So, I stopped. And she said, "To think 00:31:00that George is only making so much an hour." And I didn't answer her back because I just thought it would be against [pause] our country.

RIGELHAUPT: Dorothy and George, they were--?

ALEXANDRE: The husband and wife. And they were kind of head of all the Japanese that lived around that area. And he's the one that asked my husband if he would buy his house. And I don't think we even gave a thousand dollars. The land belonged to Santa Fe, all that land belonged to Santa Fe.

RIGELHAUPT: Was there sort of an increase in tension right after the war started? I mean after Pearl harbor had been bombed? Was that a hard time around the railroad yard?

ALEXANDRE: There was a lot of people, wives would come, there wasn't a place hardly for them to stay because the hotels that they had was just one and it was all full. You'd be surprised, you'd see a lot of girls sleeping in the benches in the park because there was no place for them to stay. It was hard.

RIGELHAUPT: So, could you talk a little bit about what that evacuation was like, you said, when the Japanese--?

ALEXANDRE: [talking over end of question] Oh, they came in a big truck and they would--they were taking some of their furniture. And she come up to me, she said, "Angie, I was just talking to the government man." I said, "Yes, I was talking to him, too." She said, "But I can't take my stove with me." And she said if I would buy it. And I said, "Well, it's already in the house, so I'll 00:33:00buy it from you."

RIGELHAUPT: So--

ALEXANDRE: So I don't remember them leaving. I just remember the government man picking up a lot of their things from their houses. But there was a lot of things that they couldn't take with them.

RIGELHAUPT: So, they had to leave in a hurry, so to say.

ALEXANDRE: Well, that was the last town, in California, was Needles, California. And all those men worked for the railroad. I don't know, it's hearsay, that the Japanese used to give them fantastic gifts every Christmas. Whether it's true, I don't know, but that pole of American flag always blue on top of that Japanese camp. Old Glory was still up there flying all the time.

RIGELHAUPT: Now, you said you were talking to a man from the government. Did he 00:34:00say why that was the last place or how--?

ALEXANDRE: No, he just said, "Well, this is the last of all the Japanese of California. This is the last town."

RIGELHAUPT: And how did things change after that? So that was probably around February or March or so of 1942?

ALEXANDRE: Well, it's just like I tell you, you put the clothes out on the line and they're dry! I mean, you stay inside more because it's so hot.

RIGELHAUPT: Did more workers have to come in to fill the jobs that had--?

ALEXANDRE: No, in that town, there was enough workers that could fill up their jobs. But as far as mechanically, for the trains, lots of times they worked long 00:35:00hours and they'd have to take {experienced? inexperienced?} men. In fact, they come to the house and they take them to work.

RIGELHAUPT: So you said you had your first child by then.

ALEXANDRE: Oh, yeah.

RIGELHAUPT: When did you have your first child?

ALEXANDRE: My first child was born in '39. We got married in'38. Late '39. It was a very nice doctor, Dr. Jennings. I heard later he went to San Bernadino and he passed away really young. One day, talking with me, he said, "you know, for me to go to school, Angie, I had tomato juice and crackers. That's all I could afford to eat." So he had it rough. But he died very young.

RIGELHAUPT: And how many kids did you have?

ALEXANDRE: At that time, I had three. After I worked at Ford Motor Company, I had my fourth child. It was a little girl.

RIGELHAUPT: Now, let's jump ahead I guess to the move to Richmond. So you moved to Richmond in early 1944? Or somewhere in 1944?

ALEXANDRE: Yeah, mm-hmm. He worked for the railroad days and then he went swing and wherever they needed him. And we moved to Atchison Village. That's where I went to work.

RIGELHAUPT: Could you talk a little bit about who else was living in Atchison Village and that sort of neighborhood?

ALEXANDRE: Oh, the neighborhood was a conductor and his wife. Her name was Vera. And next to me was Mrs. {Shimmela?}. I don't remember her last name but she 00:37:00worked for the shipyards. She was the one that encouraged me to go to work. But I cannot remember how I got hired at Ford, whether they had an office in town. Because I didn't drive. But, anyhow, I found myself in the chassis line with jeeps and these large trucks. Because the {amphibians?} used to come--they had a good place there because in the waters--lots of times they were close to the water. It was very interesting. That's when I joined the union for the first time. Those fellows' names were Castillo, Castille, and they were American born. I would say the oldest one was in his fifties and the younger one was the late forties. And I'll never forget what they told me. They said, "Angie, always say 00:38:00you'll try. Then, we can help you. Never say you can't do something." And that stayed with me all the years that I went through. They were good union men.

RIGELHAUPT: Now, from what I've read, lots of people were coming to Richmond.

ALEXANDRE: Oh, yes. In fact, down Cutting Boulevard the little trains would go by and everything was lit up. There was people going back and forth to work. It was very busy.

RIGELHAUPT: So were there lots--could you talk about other people you remember moving to Richmond that you were friendly with or--?

ALEXANDRE: Well, I'll tell you, I had no time to be friendly with nobody because I was busy working. [chuckles] And washing before going to work and cooking. You 00:39:00didn't have any time for entertainment of any kind. You were busy trying to make it when you had small--I can remember this black lady. I was hanging clothes and the black lady went by and she said, a typical mammy with her hair all tied up, she said, "If you know of anybody, please let me know and I'll go to work." Well, my ex fired--or I would say my husband fired his sister that I used to pay my ride. And all I had on the calendar was Martha Robinson, and I said, "Martha, where do you live?" "I live in the section," she said, "with my brother." The section was the fellows that fixed the railroad tracks. And I said, "Okay, Martha, you want to come to work?" She worked for me for eighteen months. She was a wonderful mammy. Everybody would say, "Here comes Martha!" And Martha 00:40:00would have her big shopping bags. And now my son tells me--you know, they didn't smoke at that time, but Martha, she chewed chew-tobacco. After all these years, my son said, "Momma, I used to follow Martha, and do you know, her spit was dark? And I used to spit and my spit was light, and I thought, 'Maybe because she's dark.'" I said, "Well, I never saw Martha--." "Well, when she take me for a walk, she used to chew chew-tobacco." See, they didn't smoke then. [laughs] And I used to laugh. I'd say, "Do you mean to tell me her spit is black?" "Yeah, momma, I think on account of she's dark. And I'd spit and my spit wasn't dark!" [laughs]

RIGELHAUPT: Now you mentioned that Kaiser was bringing in lots of black workers.

ALEXANDRE: Oh, yeah. Well, after the war, a lot of the fellows would be hired, maybe thirty, maybe twenty-five. Maybe three were black. They'd work hard and they got to stay. But a lot of fellows, they'd go to work one day and the next day--especially Mondays, if you missed on Mondays, you went on a drunk, that's what they'd say. That fellow that they laid off, they'd give you his job, or half to one and half to another. So, lots of the fellows said that Salvation Army gave them free coffee. I don't know, you hear so many things.

I used to get war bonds, they had war bonds at the time. I mean, to see all those fellows come back, a lot of them had a chip on their shoulder. They'd say, 00:42:00"We won't give to the Red Cross, no way!" Whether--you don't know what went wrong.

RIGELHAUPT: When you say the fellows had a chip on their shoulder, I'm not sure who--these were workers or--?

ALEXANDRE: Well, they were workers. They were hired to work. But lots of times they'd say, "We're not going to have nobody boss us around. They bossed us--we been in the service." They'd walk out. They didn't want them to tell them anything. But you know, when you're working, the boss has to tell you what you're to do.

For instance, when they put me out of--see, Standard Oil had a contract that they would let all the women go when the war was over. But Ford Motor never had. So, I was sent over on the assembly line again with eighteen girls, by Bob 00:43:00Nielson. And I was to put the rear axle on the frameline. So I worked next to this fellow and he spoke Spanish. And he said, "Oh, you don't have to do it today, you do it tomorrow." And I said, "No, I do it today because there won't be nobody to show you." And he thought, "Well, this woman won't have a job."

So I did it. I put the rear axles. Next to me, there was short fellow. He was black. And he wore a hat that was all tucked around here. [demonstrates] His name was Shorty, that's all I can say. And Shorty would say, [sings] "Ole Man Ford isn't gonna make a slave out of me." He would hit that pin crooked and I would look at him and say, "Shorty, don't get upset, take your time." But if I'd 00:44:00finish first, he's hit that pin so fast and then he'd say, [sings] "Old Man Ford isn't gonna make a slave out of me." I've never forgot that. [laughs]

And I worked there about I would say three months. Then, a lot of other girls quit. Running boards, fenders, they walked out. There were going to chip their fingers or whatever. But I had worked hard. So, I stuck it out. And I thought that was good pay at $1.28. And then I was sent to a bench. And in your '45s and in your '46s, it's the same car. So, you put the chrome on the grills and you have an electric screw-driver. And you put them all in. You're waiting for that car to go by. It's mostly black at that time. Maybe a maroon one would come by. 00:45:00But the Mercurys, their chrome was a little heavier than the regular Ford's. It was interesting. That's a place that I can say who was there was a fellow in coveralls always cleaning up the place. And in their showroom, all glassed, they would have these old cars. Remember, a yellow one? They kept 'em up, polished real pretty. You weren't allowed to go in there, that was a showroom that they had.

RIGELHAUPT: Now, was it only workers who worked for Santa Fe Railroad that were able to live in Atchison Village?

ALEXANDRE: Oh no, some of the shipyards--the lady next to me, I think they were allowed so many houses for each--like, Mrs. Shimmel, she worked at the shipyard. She was the one that encouraged me, "Why don't you go work for Ford. I don't tell you to go to the shipyards. But, try it." And I don't know but before I 00:46:00realized, I was in the shipyards. And I was sent to Ordnance Department. In the Ordnance Department, a fellow named Herman, I believe he was German. He talked with a broken accent. And in there in the Ordnance Department, he got a lot of first aid kits. And there was oil-cloth but they were dark green and you'd cut 'em to this first-aid kits. And we had scissors. We used to fold the first aid kit--you know, and I stop to think, I never opened a first aid kit to know all was in it. But they'd come in, already packed, and all we did was put them in sheeting, like the oil-cloths our parents used to have. Well, these were green you wrap 'em up and you seal it with the back of your scissors. You dip half of that in hot wax. When it cools off, you put the other half. And then, that 00:47:00dries. When you'd get, say a lot of wrenches, these big wrenches with big hooks like that, you'd put 'em in dark oil, real thick dark oil. You wrap them again in that {sea?} cloth and you'd put 'em in hot wax. And then fellow would come and put 'em in big army boxes. And I'd say, "Well the reason that we put the hot wax is if the ships are sunk, we can save all this." First aid kits, they've got hot wax on it. The tools, the same way. We did all the tools. It was very interesting.

RIGELHAUPT: So were you working there at the shipyard with the first aid kits before Ford?

ALEXANDRE: No, no. I didn't work at the shipyards. My neighbor worked at the 00:48:00shipyard. No, I worked for Ford. I worked on the line, when the trucks and that, and then they sent me to the Ordnance Department. From the Ordnance Department, after the war, the cars--the '45s and '46s.

RIGELHAUPT: Now, at the shipyards and at Ford, you sort of said there were lots of people that had moved to California for wartime jobs--[unintelligible as Alexandre begins to talk over end of the question].

ALEXANDRE: Oh yeah, we used to get our checks, a lot of them were--they weren't from California. They were from out of state, Oklahoma, Arkansas. You name it. Like, I tell you the judge came from Oklahoma, he was your guard at Ford Motor Company.

RIGELHAUPT: But were all the same people that you saw at Ford and that you knew had worked at the shipyards, were they also living with you in Atchinson Village?

ALEXANDRE: Oh no, I don't know where they lived. I was too busy cooking and 00:49:00washing and ironing and going to work and back and forth. I didn't have time to visit anybody. You didn't have the time.

RIGELHAUPT: And did that change a little bit in '45 and '46 after the war ended? Did it slow down a little bit?

ALEXANDRE: Um. I continued working. In fact, I got a paper there, forty years of service. A year and six months later, I went to work for a machinist. I joined the machinists union. And it was a company from Louisville, Kentucky, they came. I worked for them until they left. And in this list, I will tell you, all the different companies that I worked for. And I got a certificate, I think it's around here, for forty years of service in the machinists union. That's the list 00:50:00of people that I worked for, the different companies. [laughs]

RIGELHAUPT: Let's hold off getting there. Well, you know I am actually interested to talk for a minute about the issue of childcare because I've read that it was very hard to find childcare.

ALEXANDRE: Oh, yes! This mammy was very good, and I used to tell her, "Why do you always come around the back door? You are welcome to come around--." "Honeychild, I've been doing this for years. I always--don't change it now. I've been coming around the back door." And then she didn't read! And I said, "Well, how come you're on time all the time?" "Honeychild, I've done it for years." That's what she was answering. And my neighbor told me, "Even if she doesn't get anything done inside the house, but one thing I can tell, I think she takes care 00:51:00of every kid in the neighborhood! They always follow her." She was a typical mammy, her name was Martha Robinson. And she weaned my son from a bottle. She was a very, very good woman. I was lucky in that way. I could work and not worry about my children. Because my children came first.

RIGELHAUPT: Now you said, she worked for you for eighteen months.

ALEXANDRE: Mm-hm. She worked for me for eighteen months until I was pregnant of my daughter and I had to let her go. One time, my son, now older, he said, "You know mother, I never asked you about Martha. I went looking for her at the Section." "You went looking?" "Yeah, I kept saying Beulah," because at that time, they'd see in the movies Beulah. And I said, "Her name was Martha Robinson!" "Oh, mother, no wonder, I never found her." Because he really thought a lot of her. Because she was good. She was a very, very dependable person.

RIGELHAUPT: Could you remind me again how she came to work for you?

ALEXANDRE: I'll tell you, I was hanging clothes. At 126 West Bissell, the lady next door, Mrs. Shimmel and I would hang my clothes. She was coming across the lot and she said, "You know what, the little boy I'm taking care of, something about his tongue is kind of long and they're gonna do surgery." She said, "I've never heard of that before." She said, "If you know of anybody that wants for me to take care of them, I will." I said, "I'll tell you, I'll take your name and I'll put it in my calendar, your phone number. And where do you live?" She told me where she lived. So, when my husband fired his sister, I called her up. And she was a fantastic woman.

RIGELHAUPT: Do you remember where she lived?

ALEXANDRE: Yeah, in the Section. In the Railroad Section, there was some houses 00:53:00that the railroad men that worked on the tracks--and her brother worked in the tracks I guess. And she says, "I live with my brother at the Section." And I said, "I know where that is, that's not far from here." Uh-huh. She was never late, always on time. The neighbor says, "Every kid in the neighborhood liked her. They'd say, 'Martha! Here comes Martha!' And they'd all run to meet her like Peter Pan."

RIGELHAUPT: Was that common that there was someone to take care of your children in your home? I've read that it was either Kaiser or another one of the shipyards, opened a childcare center. So--

ALEXANDRE: I don't know--I didn't never hear of no childcare centers. Maybe they had 'em but it was very good for her to come to the house. I'd not give anything in the house to do, I'd try and do it myself, because the main thing, I wanted her to take care of my children. Which she did.

RIGELHAUPT: Were other of your neighbors that had in-home childcare as well?

ALEXANDRE: Not that I know of. Like, the conductor next door, she never worked. He was a conductor. And then Mrs. Shimmel, her husband, I hardly ever saw, but she worked at the shipyards. You always wore your hair tied, no jewelry, no ear jewelry, nothing! Your hair always tied up.

RIGELHAUPT: You know what, I'm going to need to change the tapes.

ALEXANDRE: [laughs]

[interview interruption while recording media are changed]

RIGELHAUPT: So, why don't we jump back in. While I was changing the tapes, you were talking about the different vehicles you worked on at Ford.

ALEXANDRE: Oh yeah, the first ones was the jeeps and then the trucks, the large trucks. The Amphibians, they didn't make 'em there but they'd come through the 00:55:00water and they'd put some kind of a tape on 'em. I never got to work on those. But I went to Herman, that's when I did the wrapping for overseas.

RIGELHAUPT: And you were saying you didn't work on some of the tanks because another person had been injured?

ALEXANDRE: She had fallen down. And they said, "Are you afraid of heights?" And I said, "Oh, yeah!" [laughing] You'd have to jump from one amphibian, they're high! And then jump on the other! And I said no. So they knew that I was injured so they sent me to wrap packages for overseas. And to this day, I wonder I wonder why I never opened a first aid kit. I never did. And I think, 'How come I never did open one up?' All I did was wrap 'em.

RIGELHAUPT: Let's talk a little bit about the union while you were at Ford.

ALEXANDRE: Well, that's the first time I ever joined a union and it was, let's see, Automobile--F--I have it written down there. [reads] Ford Motor Company, Automobile Workers of America. There's a letter--where's that union? I have all the clippings there.

RIGELHAUPT: Well, in here you said it was the Autoworkers of America union.

ALEXANDRE: Yeah, Autoworkers of America, but there's some letters there, too, that go with that. "F-U--Ford Motor Company--

RIGELHAUPT: Did that become the United Autoworkers or it was just called something different at that point?

ALEXANDRE: No, United Autoworkers of America. [reads again]

RIGELHAUPT: So, you were part of the union I think at that point--

ALEXANDRE: [speaks over him] That was the first, uh-huh. In fact, in one of those papers I have when I was hired and when I got a withdrawal. It's in that paper in there.

RIGELHAUPT: So, do you remember going to union meetings?

ALEXANDRE: Had no time for union meetings! [indignantly] You were too busy working and I was taking care of my children! There was no time.

RIGELHAUPT: Now, do you remember any of the shop stewards?

ALEXANDRE: Oh yes, I remember there was Castillo, [pronounces it first in Spanish then with English accent], Castillo. There was two brothers. And they had worked during Depression time! "And we worked here," he said, "when we didn't have lunch hour, Angie. So you have a lunch hour, now, and you have a fifteen minute break in the morning." And I would say one Castillo was in his fifties and the other one was his late forties. One thing that I always remember that I went through in my mind, was that they said, "Angie, never say you can't do something. Always say you'll try, because then we can come in and help you. But if you say you can't, the boss will say, 'Well, she already said she can't She didn't try.'" But I always, whenever they asked me, "You think you can do it?" "I'll try." They were very good men. They were brothers.

RIGELHAUPT: Do you remember any times they had to help out a worker over a lunch break or--

ALEXANDRE: Well, in fact, on the lunch breaks, lots of times in the chassis line with the Fords and the jeeps, they would ask me to go work at the cafeteria. They had a very good cafeteria. And I asked, "Where is this food coming from?" And they said, "From Duchess," I never heard of them, "from Oakland." And they had very good hot food. And I would serve them and there would be somebody that would be taking care of the money. But when they would--lots of times they'd ask me to go work on the line to serve the food. And I could tell you, they told me the food was from Duchess and I never heard of it. But they used to bring in big containers of food, hot food.

RIGELHAUPT: Now were there ever--the other thing I've read is that after the 01:00:00war, there weren't as much of a need for vehicles. There were some layoffs, and there were returning veterans looking for work. Do you remember how all that stuff mixed together?

ALEXANDRE: Well, they'd hire say, maybe twenty-five, thirty, thirty-five. In that bunch would be maybe three black men. Those black men would stay that worked really hard. There's some that had, like I say, that'd miss work, they wouldn't go to work all the time. Well, naturally, they're going to lay you off! This would give them a chance to just take a good worker. Lots of times, I got all the job. One person, and the other person--you're supposed to have it in a half, half to one person, half to the other. Well one time, I was on the line, I 01:01:00happened to be on the line. And they laid one fellow off. I got all his job. The next time--they'd do this so often. They'd weed 'em out--they'd call it a "weed-'em-out"--I told the girl--I told my boss, I said, "I'm not refusing not to do it, but say in your mind, 'Are you dividing this job equally?'" And then he turned to the other girl and he said, "Gladis! If you don't do that job, out you go to the door!" And when he walked away, I said, "Gladis, when you don't wanna do something, never tell them, 'Give it to Angie.'" She never did.

Sometimes you have to speak up.

RIGELHAUPT: Now did the union help workers in this situation? What was their role?

ALEXANDRE: Their role is--say, if you didn't have your break, they would come up 01:02:00to me and they would say, "Angie, have you had a break?" I said, "No." She said, "Well, you're supposed to have a break," call the boss over, "How come she hasn't had a break?" "Well, it's because I had a lay-off or somebody didn't come to work today." "Okay, get somebody or you do it!" But other than that, they were good union men. There was no need of it, to really--if you don't want to work, you just don't wanna work, that's it.

RIGELHAUPT: So, there was never a strike or anything.

ALEXANDRE: No, nuh-uh, not there, while I worked at Ford's there was no strike.

RIGELHAUPT: Was there ever any sort of contract negotiations where--?

ALEXANDRE: Well, all I can tell you is that after the war, they got rid of their women that way. Standard Oil, in their contract, they had that after the war, there was to be no women. I went back to the line with eighteen women, the boss 01:03:00said, "Angie, you do work on the line and you'll do the frames." The other girls, running boards, fenders, they'd quit this fast. So, before you knew it a lot of women left. They weren't used to working hard work. They didn't have to fire 'em. In fact, I could have gone back to work six months later, after I had my child but I told them that my husband didn't want me to work, not for a while anyhow. And he said, "Oh, I understand, Angie, because my wife is expecting, too." He told me like that. He was a young fellow at the office.

So that's how I walked out that time. So, I can tell you, after the 27th of December, 1946, that's when I walked out.

RIGELHAUPT: Now, you have a pretty long list there of all the other places you worked.

ALEXANDRE: Oh, yeah!

RIGELHAUPT: So, after you left in December of '46, what was the next job?

ALEXANDRE: The next job was Louisville, Kentucky, they came in, and American Standard. I went to go work for American Standard. A year and six months later, I joined the machinists union and from there on, I've worked forty years--in fact I have a seal that they sent me. I have it over there. Forty years.

RIGELHAUPT: Now, this company you said was American Standard?

ALEXANDRE: Yeah, see, they make bathtubs there. In fact, they had three places: 01:05:00they made tubs; San Pablo they made another one, over here, they did, like, faucets, all kind of faucets, bathroom faucets, kitchen faucets. I looked for blisters and peels and all. There was water testers, it was a big place. I got a job to both of my brother-in-laws. One was put in chrome and then later he put his own business. They're both dead now. It was a big plant.

RIGELHAUPT: And this was with the machinists union.

ALEXANDRE: Yes, I started with the machinists union. And after that union, I belonged to the lighting union, {Veraflow?} also. When you get a withdrawal, you 01:06:00can always--if there's another union like that, it's cheaper for you to go in than as a new member. So the last place I worked was for Veraflow. That place came from San Francisco. And in San Francisco, then about--oh, I would say about two months later--they had a plant. And that's the one I retired from. They made respirators for Doctor {bird?}. They made welding torches, welding tips. And I used to pack. I had about seventeen girls when I left, I think '86 or '87, 1986 I retired. And about two years ago, they send me that forty years of service.

RIGELHAUPT: Did you remember any sort of issues that came up between the union 01:07:00and the employer while you were with the machinists? Were there ever any job actions? Was there ever anything like that?

ALEXANDRE: Oh, there was one there for a while but the boss came and talked to us--he was Brown, Dr. That plant had been three brothers and then later, was just Dr. Brown. He got sick later on. His son did a lot of spending. They finally sold it.

RIGELHAUPT: So you don't remember a lot about going to union meetings or--?

ALEXANDRE: Oh well, that I did. The machinists, I went to meetings when they were voting for different members. I went then. It was different than when working during the wartime. It was altogether different. Your children are grown, and you try and make their time when they have open house for each one. 01:08:00If you one for one, you've gotta do it for four. I used to do it for four, make sure that I went to meet their teachers, it's very, very important. But when it's a war, it's altogether different. Your children are small and you're too busy fixing dinners and other things.

RIGELHAUPT: What do you remember about some of the union meetings with the machinists union?

ALEXANDRE: Well, it was always voting. I really went mostly when it was voting time is when I went. Because I also was working. Don't forget I was working, and I had children, teenage children you have to take care of. And you go when it's really important to go. Otherwise you can't be going into meetings when you have your own family to take care of.

RIGELHAUPT: So, you stayed in Richmond until--?

ALEXANDRE: Oh, yes. I worked at Veraflow, I lived in Richmond. And then I moved out here after I retired.

RIGELHAUPT: Now, you moved, you said, "You went from a two bedroom to a three bedroom?

ALEXANDRE: I went to a three bedroom when I had--but I wasn't working anymore. I went to the three bedroom home at Follet and Chancellor, right on the corner.

RIGELHAUPT: And how long were you in that--?

ALEXANDRE: Oh, it's hard to remember, back in the fifties, I think, I moved then. Uh-huh.

RIGELHAUPT: Well, and one of the things we were talking about while the tape was 01:10:00off was that women didn't face job discrimination at Ford you said.

ALEXANDRE: Oh no. No. No. Uh-uh. I never let that get by, all the time that I worked. There was no discrimination because I told them right from the beginning, what I was and what I didn't expect.

RIGELHAUPT: Did you feel like that was a union policy that the union was going to support equal treatment of workers?

ALEXANDRE: Oh, that's one thing that they--equal treatment, as far as that's concerned. But your good union men were the ones that were during Depression time, because later in life, you notice that in the union, fellows are there not to get laid off. Not because--they're serving the union but not like they should. Because I have had good union men, and business agents also, very good 01:11:00business agents. I've been fortunate that way.

RIGELHAUPT: Could you say more about what you mean about the difference between the business agents and the union men that came out of the Depression versus ones you worked with later on?

ALEXANDRE: Well, the union members, I wasn't--just at work, these Castillo brothers. I met them at work and they were good workers. But like I tell you, my children were small and I never had time for social life or nothing. You're busy cooking and washing and ironing, and making it the next day to work.

RIGELHAUPT: So, you didn't get to know--did you say it was the Castillo brothers or [with Spanish pronunciation] Castillo, or--

ALEXANDRE: Castillo. [Spanish pronunciation]

RIGELHAUPT: Now, do you know how they got their positions? Did you--?

ALEXANDRE: No, uh-uh, they never went into detail. It's just that they would 01:12:00introduce themselves as you went to work and that was it. I mean, as far as the family--or none of their business I never knew.

RIGELHAUPT: We're curious to know about the role of religion and churches and building community in Richmond. Did you have any religious affiliation while you living in Richmond or--?

ALEXANDRE: Well, when your children are--you go to a Catholic--I never sent them to Catholic school because I had one son that had speech difficulties. And then the public school, they would have classes for speech. And that was the reason why they didn't go to the Catholic school, because if I send one, I'd have to 01:13:00send the other. And in the public school, you have speech, which one of my sons needed it.

RIGELHAUPT: Was there a church that you were affiliated with while you were in Richmond?

ALEXANDRE: Yes. There was one on Tenth Street that was closer. But then later on, they had like a division, you had to go on Point Richmond and it was very hard for my children to cut across there. So, they usually used to go on Tenth Street to church.

RIGELHAUPT: Was there sort of any social activities with the congregation, picnics, those sorts of things, with other community members from your church?

ALEXANDRE: No, I never went to any. I was too busy with my family, really.

RIGELHAUPT: Do you remember the name of the church on Tenth Street?

ALEXANDRE: No [chuckles] I'm trying to think right now. Wasn't St. Anthony's, the one now in Manteca that I go to. Wasn't St. Jude. St. Martin.

RIGELHAUPT: Do you remember if there were lots of people that had recently moved to Richmond that were also members?

ALEXANDRE: I couldn't tell you. I never associated much with people in town. I was always busy working or at my house. Never had a chance to get social or get mixed with anybody.

RIGELHAUPT: So, your kids went through Richmond schools. I've read that with the 01:15:00big migration to Richmond for wartime jobs, the schools got very crowded. Do you have memories of what the schools were like for your children?

ALEXANDRE: Well, the schools at that time were alright. But later I heard--but so far my children were lucky.

RIGELHAUPT: I mean, I read things that said that during the war they had to have--

ALEXANDRE: Well, see during the war, mine were so small.

RIGELHAUPT: Your oldest was not school age yet?

ALEXANDRE: No, uh-uh. And they didn't have this preschool that they have now, then.

RIGELHAUPT: It sounds as though you were very busy with work, but do you 01:16:00remember what some of the forms of entertainment were that were very popular? Was it movies or were there theater or--?

ALEXANDRE: Where? During the wartime?

RIGELHAUPT: In the 1940's and--[silence]

ALEXANDRE: I wasn't much about movies. If you're locked up at work all those years, you don't feel like locking yourself on a Saturday or Sunday to see a movie, that's for sure.

RIGELHAUPT: Oh--some of things we're read about--that we're researching right 01:17:00now is the role of social clubs.

ALEXANDRE: No time for that during the wartime.

RIGELHAUPT: No, but then afterwards, I've heard there were like, the Elks, the Rebeccas, things like that?

ALEXANDRE: No, uh-uh. I was too busy working! Remember I worked all those years. No time. Then the time you have, you're busy with your children and school activities and things like that. [silence]

RIGELHAUPT: As far as after the war and things kind of settled down in Richmond, were there sort of like Italian neighborhoods, were there ethnic--or everyone just sort of lived everywhere in Richmond?

ALEXANDRE: Everybody lived everywhere.

RIGELHAUPT: And so that was reflected in the schools as well?

ALEXANDRE: Yes, same thing in the schools.

RIGELHAUPT: And you had mentioned that you remember the Japanese evacuation in Needles. But there was a Japanese population as well in Richmond. I'm wondering if you remember--

ALEXANDRE: I don't remember nothing of the Japanese in Richmond.

RIGELHAUPT: I can't remember exactly how big it was but I was curious to know if you remembered the return from--

ALEXANDRE: No, I don't remember the return. In fact, all those that left Needles never went back. I don't know where they must have gone to. Maybe better jobs, maybe somewhere else. But I never heard of their returning back again.

RIGELHAUPT: But you didn't end up staying in touch with--did you say--?

ALEXANDRE: No, I didn't--maybe one or two letters and then I thought I'm not going to write. I might say something that might interfere with our country.

RIGELHAUPT: And nothing was--

ALEXANDRE: No, I never heard. She just said, "Well, you can imagine, George is only making so much an hour, when back home, we had did this." And I thought, 'I might say something' so I just quit writing to her. And I forgot what state she was in.

RIGELHAUPT: Was that hard for the whole community of needles to kind of witness the people being evacuated?

ALEXANDRE: Oh, they were too busy on their own thing, they were busy on that, really. The people that lived close or worked there.

RIGELHAUPT: But it wasn't hard?

ALEXANDRE: Well, no, because they never mixed with anybody! They lived by themselves, they never mixed with any people, they never made any trouble for anybody. They were good Japanese people, I can say. They never bothered nobody. 01:20:00So, I don't know how they left or how--but they were the lasts ones because I talked to that fellow from the government, said these were the last ones of California.

RIGELHAUPT: Now, were you living in Richmond when the Port Chicago explosion happened? I think it may have been 1943. It may have been before you moved there.

ALEXANDRE: No, I don't know.

RIGELHAUPT: Do you ever remember hearing people talk about the explosion?

ALEXANDRE: No.

RIGELHAUPT: How do you remember hearing about the bombing, the atomic bombs being dropped in Japan?

ALEXANDRE: Well, all I remember is my husband coming home and saying, "They 01:21:00bombed us." That's all. He came in from the graveyard. And I remember outside he said--I said, "They bombed what?" That's what I remember.

RIGELHAUPT: But you don't remember seeing pictures in the newspaper or the big explosion in Hiroshima or Nagasaki?

ALEXANDRE: Oh, yeah. You saw that. You could here them, the Japanese across, but as far as them coming on this side or interfering with anybody, then never--they mixed by themselves. It was a hard thing for them, don't think it wasn't hard. You know, to lock somebody up like they did. They were good people, hard-working people.

RIGELHAUPT: Do you remember any of the news coverage of like D-Day or some of 01:22:00the big battles that were fought during World War II and what it was like to see news coverage of that?

ALEXANDRE: Oh, my mother used to feel so bad when she used to see the telegrams, they used to come to your house in a bicycle. And every time she'd see that bicycle, she knew one of her sons was injured. Or she'd get angry at the mailman if he never brought a letter from her sons in the service. I think I have a picture there--I mean not a picture--well, I do of my oldest brother. Two of my brothers returned, but they're dead now.

RIGELHAUPT: So was your mother living near you during--or were you just remembering conversations with her?

ALEXANDRE: Oh, different conversations, I wasn't living with her.

RIGELHAUPT: How do you remember hearing about the war being over, that it had ended?

ALEXANDRE: Oh! Down MacDonald Avenue, there was screaming and hollering and tooting and everything down MacDonald Avenue.

RIGELHAUPT: But it was a festive celebration.

ALEXANDRE: Yeah, celebrating, everybody celebrated.

RIGELHAUPT: How do you remember Richmond changing after the war ended?

ALEXANDRE: Well, the neighborhood of Atchison Village isn't as nice as it used to be. They used to keep those yards so clean, there was a woman picking up all the papers around the area, they kept those yards up nice. And now, I met a girl down the street and she said, "Oh, Angie, I didn't have enough money after that 01:24:00accident and I bought in the Village. But once you go in--I do my shopping in the daytime because I don't go out at night. It's dangerous all around Atchison Village." That's what I can tell you about Atchison Village now. It's not like it used to be.

RIGELHAUPT: Why do you think that is?

ALEXANDRE: There's too much fighting and arguing and--the neighborhood is all changed. There are gangs now, that you don't want to even go out at night. And she said, "I don't go out at night. I do my shopping in the daytime." The area around is not good to live in.

RIGELHAUPT: And your children all graduated from Richmond high schools?

ALEXANDRE: That's right.

RIGELHAUPT: Which--?

ALEXANDRE: Richmond High School.

RIGELHAUPT: Do you remember any sort of changes in the school from when, say, 01:25:00your oldest started in Richmond schools to when your youngest finished? Or did they have similar experiences?

ALEXANDRE: Well, I think sometimes the teachers are there too long. I'll tell you why.

One time, one of my boys comes home crying. And I used to get hay fever real bad so I was home. And he came and he showed me his arm. A little girl had poked him with the edge of a pencil and he had lead inside of it. So I go back to the school. And I wish now I'd a been smart enough to save that paper, which I wasn't. The principal--I said, "I want to talk to the teacher so-and-so. I want to know what went on." Meanwhile, I show her the paper. In that paper, it said, 01:26:00"Oh, Mrs. Alexandre, I didn't expect what was going to happen. I can blame myself for this happening." I hope you forgive him. When I give it to the principal, she tears it. I should have saved it. And I said, "I want to see the little girl that says that my son poked her, that's why she put the pencil, I want to see that little girl." Well, you know the little girl never showed up. I think they must have called them not to come. "I want to see what she did." I said, "You know what, I'm coming next year to find out if this teacher is still here. If not, I want her expelled." Oh, Mrs. Alexandre, there's been a lot of parents complaining about this teacher. I think she'd been here with us too long." "She better not be here next year because I'll see that she is gone." Well, she wasn't. they let her go.

That's the only experience that I ever had. Because I'll tell you, Mr. Sykes, he was the principal, he was a very nice man, I went to the school and I talked to him. And he used to say, "You know, I keep an eye on your daughter. She's a wonderful girl." That was my oldest daughter, Lydia. Because lots of times things happen at school and you go talk to the principal and you get things straightened out. But when I went to the principal and she tore this, I should have kept it. You learn the hard way. [pause]

I have some papers I've got to sign for you, two envelopes and another one, too.

RIGELHAUPT: So were all of your children of school age when you went back and started working at some places with the machinists union?

ALEXANDRE: Oh, they were already--let's see--I worked all those years. They were going to school. I would make sure I would go to open house. I met their teachers because I wanted them to know me because lots of times, parents don't 01:29:00go and they really can't help your child as much.

RIGELHAUPT: So, childcare wasn't as hard because they were in school.

ALEXANDRE: Oh, no.

RIGELHAUPT: And your husband was still working for Santa Fe Railroad?

ALEXANDRE: Yeah, he worked at--and also, he retired to the one in Oakland. He retired to the Southern Pacific. As men retired, then he'd go take their place. And he retired through that.

RIGELHAUPT: What was his job with the railroad?

ALEXANDRE: Machinist. Diesel machinist.

RIGELHAUPT: Do you remember what union he was a member of?

ALEXANDRE: Oh God. I had it there and I gave it to my oldest daughter. I don't have them, his papers.

RIGELHAUPT: But he was always a member of--

ALEXANDRE: Oh , he was always a member, railroads. Railroads was it.

RIGELHAUPT: Did he speak positively of the union?

ALEXANDRE: We never got into that subject about union, we were to busy working. [hearty laughter]

RIGELHAUPT: So how do you see Richmond today? What are some of the positives and negatives about Richmond?

ALEXANDRE: The streets are filthy. You see our streets, how clean they are? Over there, there's cans, papers, bags. And I told a dear friend of mine, I said, "What happened to your city here? It's run down." He said, "Well, we pay the taxes, I don't know what has happened here." I can see it's gone down. [pause] It needs a lot of attention. Look at our streets here, how clean they are. It's 01:31:00altogether different.

RIGELHAUPT: So, are there some positive things about Richmond?

ALEXANDRE: Well, I wouldn't go back anymore to live there. I stayed there while I worked. But as far as going back to live, no.

RIGELHAUPT: And your husband commuted from Richmond to Oakland when he worked for Southern Pacific?

ALEXANDRE: Oh no, we lived in Richmond and you went to Oakland.

RIGELHAUPT: Right, okay. [pause] Well, often the way I end an interview is, is there anything you'd like to add? Anything I should have asked that didn't?

ALEXANDRE: No, I think you've covered everything.

RIGELHAUPT: Okay, well I'm going to pause these and then we'll look at those papers.

[End of Interview]