CASTLE: We can go back at some point and talk about where you were born and
raised, but just to kind of continue on the conversation we've been having, let's talk about the experience with the Santa Fe Indian Village in Richmond. Could you tell me the first time you remember hearing about the railroad company, and what was your family relationship with the railroad company?NELLIE SARRACINO: When I heard about the Santa Fe Indian--about the railroad?
Oh, I guess ever since we were little, the old folks talked about the railroad, because in the old days the old folks were more interested in what was happening to the railroad. Then my brother-in-law, Victor, and my husband and Pete 00:01:00Marie--their grandfather was the one that agreement with the railroad. The white man could not pronounce his Indian name. His Indian name was Hiyuwe [phonetic], but the white people called him Highway.CASTLE: And this was 1922? When was this first agreement? Are you saying that
this is your family remembering the first agreement in the twenties?N. SARRACINO: I really don't exactly know what year this was, but I think Victor
would tell you when he gets here.CASTLE: What was the agreement between the railroad officials and the Laguna people?
00:02:00N. SARRACINO: Oh, the agreement was for the Santa Fe to come through the Indian
reservation, when they first brought their railroad across through the reservation. That was when they made that verbal agreement.CASTLE: And what did the Laguna get for the agreement?
N. SARRACINO: Well, they were promised jobs, and whatever, I guess, they might
need to have. I guess that was the verbal agreement with the railroad. Just like you're talking about our housing in Richmond Colony, that was the verbal 00:03:00agreement, too. That's why Santa Fe put up those homes for us. After taking the wheels off the boxcars, they had moved them down to where we used to live. At first they were still on wheels, right across the coach yard, where the coach yard is. But then later, then Santa Fe moved them down to the Santa Fe Indian Village.CASTLE: So you're talking about Richmond. You're in Richmond, California.
N. SARRACINO: Yes.
CASTLE: Tell me when you first moved to Richmond.
N. SARRACINO: In 1942.
CASTLE: Were you with your husband and your kids? Did you all live together?
N. SARRACINO: No, I was not married then, at that time. But I was working for
the railroad.CASTLE: What did you do for the railroad?
N. SARRACINO: At first when they hired me I was an engine wiper. Then a few
00:04:00weeks after, they transferred me into the shop where I was a helper to a mechanic.CASTLE: So you started off as an engine wiper.
N. SARRACINO: Yes. I started out as an engine wiper.
CASTLE: What was your job?
N. SARRACINO: Because during the war times, they were mostly using steam
engines. They were not using diesels. Diesels had come about way much later, but they were all steam engines they were using. During the war times they hired all the retired engineers back on the job. I worked with two railroad retirement engineers. One was Clyde Lam [phonetic], and one was Beckman [phonetic].CASTLE: When something is a steam engine, what is it that you have to do? As an
00:05:00engine wiper, what is it that you do?N. SARRACINO: Well, what we were doing was wiping off all the excess oil on the
engines, you know. That was what the engine wiper used to do. Then later I was transferred to a mechanic helper, machinist helper, and then after that I was transferred to the supply room where they supplied the steam engines, where you had to supply them with oil and lanterns that they used.CASTLE: What was your favorite job out of all--I mean, that's a lot of
transfers. Was there one job that you liked more than another?N. SARRACINO: Well, I would rather test--you know, it's funny. When they were
using the steam engines, you had to test the water. That was my favorite job, 00:06:00after working in the supply room.CASTLE: What did you do to test the water?
N. SARRACINO: When they come in you have to catch them right away in the yard,
and then take the water out from the steam engine. After you take the water out from the steam engine, then you put chemicals in the water, and then it registers where the boiler has to be washed out from the steam engine, and they'd take them back to the shop to work on the boilers.CASTLE: So it sounds like it's not as messy as having to wipe the engines.
N. SARRACINO: You're right. [laughs]
CASTLE: It's a little more technical, too, right?
N. SARRACINO: That's true.
CASTLE: So is this all throughout 1942? How long did you have these jobs, and
00:07:00what else did you do after that, in terms of work?N. SARRACINO: At work? Well, that was my job. I worked for Santa Fe about four
years. Then when I got married, then my husband told me not to work anymore.CASTLE: So this husband, where did you meet this person?
N. SARRACINO: Well, he was an electrician. His name was Sandy Sarracino.
CASTLE: And you met him in the Indian village.
N. SARRACINO: Yes.
CASTLE: Can you tell me--do you remember the first time you saw him, or the
first date that you went on?N. SARRACINO: Well, I never knew him. See, he's from Laguna, but see, he's way
over in another village. But I just got to know him at work, on the job.CASTLE: So you worked together.
00:08:00N. SARRACINO: No, I'd never worked with him, because he was an electrician at
the coach yard. But I worked in the same area, only the shop was way to the back of the coach yard, where all the engines come in.CASTLE: I guess I hadn't thought about the fact that you all are really the
Richmond Santa Fe Indian Village family. I mean, you met your husband there. I mean, that you'd live here in the pueblo, and then find each other all the way over in Richmond, California.N. SARRACINO: Right. Right.
CASTLE: So what year did you two get married, you and Sandy?
N. SARRACINO: In--let me see now. I have to think. [laughs]
CASTLE: Sometime in the forties.
00:09:00N. SARRACINO: That was in '44.
CASTLE: 1944. Can you stop for a second?
[Interruption. Tape recorder turned off.]
CASTLE: You said you had an uncle.
N. SARRACINO: Yes. Tom Ahmi [phonetic] was his name, and he was the one that
came home to visit from Richmond, because they needed some more people to go out there to work for the railroad. So I went with him out to Richmond, and the very next day I got that job, and I was put to work the very next--a couple of days later after that.CASTLE: Who went along with you? How many women were with you when you went out
to Richmond? Do you remember? 00:10:00N. SARRACINO: No, I was the only one that went with my uncle.
CASTLE: Did other women come soon after that?
N. SARRACINO: Well, there were other women that did work for the railroad, too.
There was other Laguna ladies that worked.CASTLE: Did they have similar jobs to you?
N. SARRACINO: Oh yes, they had different jobs. Some were coach cleaners, and
some were supply ladies, and some still worked in the shop with the engines.CASTLE: Do you remember their names?
N. SARRACINO: Yes.
CASTLE: What were their names?
N. SARRACINO: The ladies' name was Daisy Beardsley [phonetic], Julia Poncho
[phonetic], Gertie Henderson [phonetic], Nellie Hill [phonetic], Elizabeth Arkey [phonetic], Juanita Cashrol [phonetic], and let me see who else. There were 00:11:00other Acoma [phonetic] ladies that did work there.CASTLE: You all didn't arrive together, but you came all around that general
time, the early forties.N. SARRACINO: Yes. They all came at different times, probably, because I really
don't remember exactly, you know.CASTLE: Do you remember when you first got there, did you have any idea what to
expect? I mean, when you first got into the rail yard, was this just a totally new world for you, or what was that, for those first few days or weeks, like there? Do you remember that?N. SARRACINO: The first few days I was there?
CASTLE: Yes. What was it like? Had you traveled a lot before that, or was this
the first time that you had gone so far from--N. SARRACINO: That was the first time I've gone that far.
CASTLE: Was it exciting? Was it scary?
00:12:00N. SARRACINO: Not really, no. No, it was interesting to make that trip.
CASTLE: And you went out on the railroad.
N. SARRACINO: Right.
CASTLE: Took a train out.
N. SARRACINO: Because they furnish you a pass to travel when you first go out there.
CASTLE: From what I understand the agreement was largely focused on any Laguna
man who wanted to work and have a job for the railroad. Do you know why women were working, why they were brought in? Was it because of the need with World War II?N. SARRACINO: Well, that was during the war times, and they needed more people
to work for the railroad. There was, of course, other men that worked, but they needed a lot of help with the coach yard and then the engines. 00:13:00CASTLE: So did you live by yourself when you first got there? Did you live with
other women?N. SARRACINO: No, I lived with my sister. She was already out--they were already
out there, her and her family.CASTLE: And what's her name?
N. SARRACINO: Her name was Doris, Doris Devore [phonetic].
CASTLE: Doris Devore. So they were already out, established.
N. SARRACINO: They were already out there, yes.
CASTLE: And they were living in a boxcar.
N. SARRACINO: They were already living in the boxcar.
CASTLE: So describe to me what the village was like. I know it changed over
time, as improvements were made by the railroad. But what was it like when you first got there, and describe the living conditions for me.N. SARRACINO: At first, the boxcars, of course, were still on wheels, and then,
much later, they took the wheels off the boxcars and moved them down to the area where-- 00:14:00[Tape recorder turned off.]
CASTLE: You were describing to me the boxcars. At first they had wheels; then
they took the wheels off. What were they like inside? Describe to me what it was like [unclear].N. SARRACINO: Well, they were nice inside. They had two bedrooms, and then, of
course, a living room. But later when they were removed down to where we were, another site, then they added the kitchen and the bathrooms. The men had their own restroom, and the women had their own restroom. There were two boxcars that were used as restrooms. Like showers, they had showers, and, of course, wash basins and stuff like that. 00:15:00CASTLE: How long was it before you had your own bathrooms built into the boxcars?
N. SARRACINO: Oh, not too long, about maybe two, three months, after they
finished with adding the kitchens and the bathrooms.CASTLE: What was it, I mean, because boxcars aren't--they're long, but they're
not necessarily very wide. How was it like, living inside? Were they comfortable?N. SARRACINO: Oh, they were comfortable, yes.
CASTLE: So you had a kitchen. How else did you cook? Did you cook traditional
food? And eventually, did you build outdoor ovens, is what I understood?N. SARRACINO: Oh yes, way much later we had built ovens so we can bake bread,
oven bread. 00:16:00CASTLE: What's required to bake the bread? Do you need sand to bake the bread?
[to someone else] Go ahead and ask.NARRATOR'S DAUGHTER: Mom, remember when you guys first made the ovens?
N. SARRACINO: Yes.
NARRATOR'S DAUGHTER: And you guys had to go to the secured area, and you guys had to ask for sand to
build them, because it was a secured area, and you guys had to get permission to go in.N. SARRACINO: Oh yes, to get the dirt.
NARRATOR'S DAUGHTER: That's what you can tell her.
CASTLE: Why was that?
N. SARRACINO: We had to ask permission to get the dirt.
CASTLE: From where?
N. SARRACINO: From Point Richmond.
NARRATOR'S DAUGHTER: A certain kind of sand that they needed. They couldn't find that sand anywhere,
and they had to haul it.CASTLE: That's a lot of effort to make bread.
N. SARRACINO: Not really, no.
00:17:00CASTLE: We need to talk about World War II.
[Tape recorder turned off.]
NARRATOR'S DAUGHTER: My aunt, her aunt had--
N. SARRACINO: They had their own oven, the Acomas did, and then the Lagunas had
their own oven.CASTLE: Did the Acomas and the Lagunas live in different parts of the village,
or was it just families all interspersed? Was there a section that had Acomas living in it, different from the Lagunas?N. SARRACINO: Oh no, no. You know, the thing with the people out there, it's
like we were all just like one whole family, just everybody was friendly. There were no problems.CASTLE: I wasn't thinking as much about problems, but I just wondered if, like,
00:18:00families tended to live closer, you know, since they're probably from Acoma village, did they stay together? Because sometimes that's how people describe it. I'm trying to get a sense of what the yard looked like. I mean, how many boxcars were there? Were there ten? Were there twenty? Were there fifty? Or was it just a really big space?N. SARRACINO: There were thirty boxcars.
CASTLE: Oh, so you know exactly. [Sarracino laughs.] Didn't need to guess all
that many different options.N. SARRACINO: There were thirty units where two
families had one boxcar on one side, but both of the kitchens were added together. Like they were units, one whole unit, but the bathrooms were separate, 00:19:00and the kitchens were separate, and the bedrooms were separate from each other.Unidentified Female:
They were like duplexes.
N. SARRACINO: Just like there's one boxcar here, and the other boxcar here
[demonstrates], and then the kitchen and the bathrooms separated the two boxcars.CASTLE: So the two boxcars are like this, and then in between is--
N. SARRACINO: Right. Right.
CASTLE: Okay, so it's like an H, kind of. Okay, so
two families. So you married Sandy--N. SARRACINO: Yes.
CASTLE: --and you lived in a boxcar. What family lived in the other boxcar?
N. SARRACINO: Oh, the neighbors?
CASTLE: Yes, who were the neighbors?
N. SARRACINO: The Montoyas.
CASTLE: Did they have children?
N. SARRACINO: Yes.
CASTLE: When did you have your first child? Was she born there in Richmond
00:20:00Village, or was she born back home in Laguna?N. SARRACINO: They were both born in Albuquerque. At the time there was still an
Indian hospital in Albuquerque.CASTLE: What year was your first child born?
N. SARRACINO: 1945.
CASTLE: Maybe we could talk a little bit about what it was like to be in
Richmond during World War II. I mean, already you ended up with a job in the village because of wartime need.[aside] Brendan, what do you want to ask in terms of World War II that you're
thinking is helpful to Richmond?FUREY: How would you describe to someone who didn't live through World War II
the atmosphere in Richmond during the war? There were the three shipyards, the 00:21:00Ford Motor plant, American Radiator, a lot of activity going on in Richmond. How would you describe an average day in Richmond during World War II?N. SARRACINO: I guess you just kind of get used to all of this, you know, and
just don't think anything about it, you know.CASTLE: Was it different?
N. SARRACINO: The only--
CASTLE: I mean, was there energy in the air?
N. SARRACINO: The only difference was when we had earthquakes. [laughs]
CASTLE: You mean being out in California?
N. SARRACINO: Right.
CASTLE: You experienced earthquakes when you were there?
N. SARRACINO: Oh yes, oh yes.
CASTLE: And they were scary?
N. SARRACINO: It was kind of scary. Gives you a funny feeling when they have
those earthquakes.CASTLE: Did you have to deal with rationing or ration coupons,
00:22:00in terms of the food? Were there certain things you couldn't get during World War II?N. SARRACINO: Oh yes. We had some kind of ration books that you had to have like
so much for meat, so much for sugar, and you couldn't find no stockings, nylon stockings, anywhere. [laughs]CASTLE: So what did you do, being a young woman on the town? What do you do
without stockings?N. SARRACINO: They used to come out with some kind of cream, like, to put on
your legs, like the different shades of stockings, you know. But then once in a while Macy's would come out with nylon stockings. If you were there, you were lucky to get a pair, but you were only allowed one pair.CASTLE: Ooh, that's a lot of pressure.
N. SARRACINO: Really. Right.
00:23:00CASTLE: How do you avoid runs in that one pair of stockings?
N. SARRACINO: And then shoes, you had to use coupons for shoes, too.
CASTLE: So did you have to be really strategic?
N. SARRACINO: You had to kind of watch your coupons.
CASTLE: Did you share things with other people? I'm curious. Did anyone ever
share shoes or anything, since it was hard to get a hold of these items?N. SARRACINO: No. I think everybody got along with whatever they had, you know,
in the line of coupons.CASTLE: Did you ever use stocking cream--
N. SARRACINO: No.
CASTLE: --to make your legs look like suntan?
N. SARRACINO: No. No. I think mostly everybody wore socks.
CASTLE: What did you wear to work, on a daily basis, in this job, in the
different jobs you had working in the rail yard?N. SARRACINO: Well, regular work clothes, coveralls.
00:24:00CASTLE: Coveralls?
N. SARRACINO: I mean, I wore coveralls. And if they need to go to the laundry,
well, you wear your regular work clothes. [laughs]CASTLE: So what did you do during wartime in Richmond for fun? What was social
life like? Did you go out? Did you go dancing anywhere?N. SARRACINO: Oh yes, yes. We had a small buggy. We used to have to carry both
girls in the buggy and push them down the street. [laughs] Yes, we went to the movies, and went to Cow Palace when they have rodeos.CASTLE: Oh, really?
N. SARRACINO: Oh yes, because, personally, we met Gene Autry and Roy Rogers.
CASTLE: At the Cow Palace?
N. SARRACINO: Yes. Even Gene Autry came and sat with us and talked with us for a
00:25:00while, before he started the second show.CASTLE: How were you introduced to him?
N. SARRACINO: He just came and sat by us, because he knew--well, he worked with
some Navajos on the Navajo reservation, he said, when they were making movies. I guess he just figured that we were Indian people, so he just came and started to talk to us. He sat by us. And Roy Rogers was the same way.CASTLE: Were they nice?
N. SARRACINO: Yes.
CASTLE: So that was like a Sunday afternoon or something, or a weekend.
N. SARRACINO: Oh yes.
CASTLE: Did you hold dances in the village?
N. SARRACINO: No. Well, dancing in the village, we had our own Indian dances,
and the Acomas the same way, too.CASTLE: So, traditional dancing? Or ceremonial dancing?
N. SARRACINO: Right, traditional dancing, yes.
00:26:00CASTLE: When did you do that? For what reasons, and when?
N. SARRACINO: But for
dancing, like American dance, I guess you would call it, well, my husband had his own dance band.CASTLE: Really.
N. SARRACINO: Yes.
CASTLE: What did they do?
N. SARRACINO: He had a man that played the drum, and another one played the
saxophone. His name was Philip Sanshoe [phonetic] that played the saxophone. The Garcia man played the drums, and my husband played the accordion.CASTLE: The accordion?
N. SARRACINO: Yes. He knows how to play. I still have the accordion.
FUREY: What kind of a band, was it Western swing, or what type of songs were
they playing?N. SARRACINO: Well, just regular American music.
CASTLE: So dance songs?
N. SARRACINO: Yes.
00:27:00CASTLE: Would they play at dance halls, and people would dance?
N. SARRACINO: Yes, right. They used to use the Santa Fe assembly hall to have
those American dances, what we call American dances.CASTLE: So that's how you distinguish between, as Pueblo people--
N. SARRACINO: Right.
CASTLE: --who dance for a lot of reasons.
N. SARRACINO: Yes. Both tribes, both the Acomas and the Lagunas came and enjoyed
their dancing.FUREY: Do you remember Dude Martin's band?
N. SARRACINO: What's that now?
FUREY: Dude Martin. He played in Richmond during the war a lot.
N. SARRACINO: Oh yes, yes.
FUREY: His was the most popular band in Richmond.
N. SARRACINO: And people never used to go elsewhere, I don't think, for dancing,
because some places, you know, get rough.CASTLE: Where were the dances that you went to?
N. SARRACINO: At the Santa Fe yard.
CASTLE: And that's in the village?
N. SARRACINO: Yes, Santa Fe--no, Santa Fe assembly hall. I'll show you a picture
00:28:00of the Santa Fe building, and this was upstairs where they had the assembly hall. That was where they had the American dances.CASTLE: What was the name of your husband's band? Did they have a name?
N. SARRACINO: He never had a name. [laughs]
CASTLE: I mean, who did you dance with if he was playing? You had plenty of
friends to go?N. SARRACINO: Well, we'd just go watch, maybe, or he'd rest for a while and come
and we'd dance.CASTLE: But you don't recall ever going really far away from the village to go
dancing. You didn't go into Richmond itself, or Oakland, or San Francisco? Did you ever do that, to dance?N. SARRACINO: No, not for dancing, but we'd go to YWCA for like Thanksgiving or whatever.
00:29:00CASTLE: You mentioned that you often danced traditionally in the village.
N. SARRACINO: Yes.
CASTLE: For what different reasons or occasions would you do that? Just for
ceremonial purposes, or to celebrate something? Can you give me an example?N. SARRACINO: Yes, to celebrate some kind of occasion, or just for like maybe
somebody's birthday they would have something.CASTLE: Did you ever participate in any activities outside of the village where
you danced, to show people your culture, like at school? Or did people come to the village?N. SARRACINO: Oh yes, right. Sometimes we'd dance for the school, and sometimes,
00:30:00remember, we showed you a picture where we danced in San Francisco at that Continental Airlines.CASTLE: What was that for, their first flight?
N. SARRACINO: When it first inaugurated from San Francisco to Albuquerque. When
it took its first flight.CASTLE: I see. And who danced? Who was it that was dancing?
N. SARRACINO: The dance was--what we called it was the war dance; social dance,
I guess you would call it.CASTLE: Did you go to church, or did you have any traditional ways of practicing spirituality?
N. SARRACINO: Oh yes, we went to church on Sundays at Point Richmond, or either
00:31:00down there or on Tenth Street, where there was another Catholic church, which was St. Mark's.CASTLE: Who went to that church? Would other different ethnic groups go to that church?
N. SARRACINO: I think mostly all the people went to the Catholic churches.
CASTLE: You mean all the people from the village?
N. SARRACINO: Yes. They were all Catholic people that were there.
CASTLE: Were there other, like, ethnic Catholics there?
N. SARRACINO: No.
CASTLE: Did you recognize--were there other white people there, or you know, Polish?
N. SARRACINO: Well, I mean, you know, when you go to church there's all
different kinds of people there.CASTLE: Okay. So you all went to church together.
N. SARRACINO: Yes, we all--yes.
CASTLE: And when you were in the village itself, did you have any traditional
spiritual practices that you held within the village?N. SARRACINO: Oh no, no.
CASTLE: In terms of social life also, what are some of the things that you or
00:32:00the men did? Were there sports teams that were formed during that time?N. SARRACINO: Oh yes. The men had a Santa Fe baseball team.
CASTLE: Who did they play?
N. SARRACINO: Other teams from the city. I'll show you a picture of the baseball
players that was taken when we first had that reunion for the Santa Fe Indian people.CASTLE: We've called it a village, and at some point it also has the name
colony. Can you describe the political system? Was there a council elected? How 00:33:00did the colony take care of its needs and govern itself?N. SARRACINO: Well, we had our officers, just like from the tribal. He had to
come from the tribal office at Laguna, and they elect a governor, a secretary, a treasurer, and I think two other officials. Those were the people that ran the Santa Fe Indian Village; same way with the ones on the Acoma side. They had the same thing, too.CASTLE: Oh, okay. So there were two sets of--
N. SARRACINO: Right. Two different--the Acomas had their own officers, and the
Laguna people had their own officers, and they had village meetings every week. 00:34:00The men got together. There might be something that was needed at the village, or they might discuss about something, you know. Like, they had to vote sometimes for something from the main tribal office at Laguna.CASTLE: So, in the village the council had a say on what happened back home.
N. SARRACINO: Right. Yes. They got letters from the main tribal office.
CASTLE: And those letters, they described what was happening at home.
N. SARRACINO: Yes.
CASTLE: So that there was a lot of communication between--
N. SARRACINO: Right.
00:35:00CASTLE: Because this is a big thing, that you're a group of--
N. SARRACINO: Yes. We weren't just out there, but we had communications from the
main tribal office at Laguna.CASTLE: Would you say that there was a really strong sense of home and place and culture?
N. SARRACINO: Right. Yes.
CASTLE: And all these different things that we've been talking about played into
that, right?N. SARRACINO: Right.
CASTLE: What languages were spoken in the village?
N. SARRACINO: Indian language. Well, both English and Indian.
CASTLE: Were there other places where Indians went in the Bay Area, other
meeting centers or places that--did you ever visit them, like the Intertribal Friendship House? Do you remember that? 00:36:00N. SARRACINO: Right.
CASTLE: And what else? Was there a place in San Francisco, an Indian center that
you ever attended?N. SARRACINO: Oh yes.
CASTLE: What kind of things would you do?
N. SARRACINO: It was a get-together for the people, like maybe they have a
little powwow, or somebody's birthday came up, or maybe it might be a Thanksgiving or Christmas dinner that was being planned at the Tribal Friendship House. Before the Tribal Friendship House it was YWCA.CASTLE: Oh, really.
N. SARRACINO: Yes.
CASTLE: In Oakland?
When you were out in the village, did you miss home? Did you miss being back here?
N. SARRACINO: Oh yes, because we had old folks back home, you know, where you
00:37:00had to, of course, come see them. Like when my husband is on vacation, like Santa Fe would give the men two weeks vacation. Then after they worked so many years, then they got three weeks vacation, with pay.CASTLE: And you would come back to Laguna?
N. SARRACINO: Oh yes, we'd come back and visit my parents, because they were
both still living here.FUREY: Did you belong to a union, a trade union? I'm not sure what the union was
00:38:00at Santa Fe.NARRATOR'S DAUGHTER: You know, like when my dad belonged to the union, the
oilers union, the firemen and oilers union. Did the women--at the time when you were working, did you belong to a union?N. SARRACINO: A what?
FUREY: The trade union connected for labor bargaining. You know what a union is?
N. SARRACINO: A union? No.
CASTLE: I'll have to say no. Well, this picture of you with your oilcan back
here as an oiler-- when you first said you wiped down engines, when did you work as an oiler? Was that the job wiping down engines, or what does an oiler do?N. SARRACINO: The oiler? Okay, the oiler is the one that checks all the wheels.
If the wheels are not packed with waste--they called it waste, and you put them 00:39:00around the wheels, and then you have to check all the wheels, and then oil the waste, make sure that the waste is all soaked with oil, because if something happens on the road--because after you check an engine out you have to sign your name. Then if that engine is having wheel problems, then they'll call you in and ask you, "Did you work on that engine?"CASTLE: So you're held accountable.
N. SARRACINO: Then you have to really be careful with the wheels, because see,
those wheels get hot on the rail, and then you have to really make sure they're 00:40:00packed real good, and then oiled real good, and then--CASTLE: Describe to me when you're saying they're packed with--it's called waste?
N. SARRACINO: Yes.
CASTLE: What is that exactly? Is it a bunch of greasy gunk? Describe to me what
waste is.N. SARRACINO: I don't know how I would describe that. It's like a whole bunch of
thread shredded that they call waste. Okay. Then you pack this waste around the wheel, and then you have to make sure you oil the waste real good, because after you work on an engine you have to sign your name, and then if that engine should have wheel problems on the way somewhere, then you're in for it.CASTLE: Did you ever have a problem with any wheels?
N. SARRACINO: No. No.
CASTLE: Did you know anyone who did?
N. SARRACINO: Yes. I don't know how to describe that waste--
00:41:00CASTLE: Is it like a substance that sticks to the wheel?
N. SARRACINO: Yes. It's kind of like--you would say like cotton, but then it's
not really cotton. It's kind of shredded string-like thing that you have to pack around the wheels.CASTLE: Right. What would happen if there wasn't that waste to give some
release? Because if not, it would be all metal on metal, right?N. SARRACINO: Yes, right.
CASTLE: So this gives it--and then you keep that oiled, and so it allows it to
go smoothly around.N. SARRACINO: Right.
CASTLE: Yes, that makes sense. That sounds like a pretty tough job.
N. SARRACINO: Yes.
CASTLE: I'm thinking, you know, a lot of women took new jobs on that they might
00:42:00not have done before World War II--N. SARRACINO: Yes.
CASTLE: --you know, whether they were welding or riveting. It's a pretty
important job, because if anything goes wrong, something could happen. How long did you do that job?N. SARRACINO: I did that about maybe two years. Then they switched me to testing
the engines when they come in.CASTLE: And that you liked to do.
N. SARRACINO: That was to test the water with chemicals, and then if that
chemical doesn't register to the point where it's supposed to be, then the engine has to go into the shop and they have to clean out the boiler, because see, during the wartimes they used mostly steam engines. There were no diesels 00:43:00at all, just steam engines.CASTLE: Did you ask to be transferred to that job from being an oiler?
N. SARRACINO: No. They just kind of pick you, I guess, and then they put you in
that department.CASTLE: Was it more responsibility, do you think, than the job you had before
that? Because it sounds like it was.N. SARRACINO: No. Well, they come around and they check on you. The bosses come
around all the time. They walk back and forth. Then if you are really a good worker, I guess, or I don't know how they pick you, but anyway, then they come up and they just tell you, maybe say, "Tomorrow you go test the engines, and 00:44:00that's going to be your job."CASTLE: Do you remember, were there times, or do you remember any talk about,
like the bosses, or people thinking there were jobs that women shouldn't do, that they weren't capable of doing?N. SARRACINO: No, I think everybody did what they had to do.
CASTLE: Can we take a break?
[Tape recorder turned off.]
N. SARRACINO: It's a newspaper clipping.
NARRATOR'S DAUGHTER: Oh no, I haven't come to it yet. I didn't see it yet; not yet anyway.
N. SARRACINO: She was washing the wheels.
NARRATOR'S DAUGHTER: Okay. It's not in these ones.
N. SARRACINO: And I was handing the supplies up to the engineer, that Clyde Lam.
NARRATOR'S DAUGHTER: Oh, it's probably in one of these, then.
FUREY: Maybe we could bring the album over here so she could just look at--
NARRATOR'S DAUGHTER: It's not in that one. But there's that picture that Daddy and what's-his-name
00:45:00was in San Francisco, right? It's in there, but it's in 1940s, before he married her.N. SARRACINO: Oh, this was at Oakland Park.
FUREY: What year was this picture?
N. SARRACINO: Gee, I guess I don't know. There's Ruthie. She was just a little
thing. That's Terry.FUREY: So the early fifties.
N. SARRACINO: Yes, that's my husband and that's me, and that's a neighbor. And
here's Ruthie, way down here. Is there, by chance, a picture of Dad when he retired? I wanted to show them that now; Santa Fe building where we used to have 00:46:00those American dances.NARRATOR'S DAUGHTER: Is it in an album like that one? Is it like that one, or one of those plastic ones?
N. SARRACINO: It's kind of in a newer album. These are the old ones. Some of
these are gone. See, here's a Santa Fe boxcar. This one, out this way is the shower and the bathroom, right here. This was taken at the zoo. Here's Ruthie, way down here.[Background conversation, inaudible.]
N. SARRACINO: See, these were all taken at
00:47:00the zoo in San Francisco. You know, they used to take my husband to the zoo, that Fleishhacker Zoo, and they used to put him inside where the eagle is and takemovies of him. Somebody took something out from here. Oh, man, it's summer,
because during the winter usually I tried to wear my coveralls, because it's cold.CASTLE: Yes. Now this is your oilcan right here?
00:48:00N. SARRACINO: Yes. Remember the one I'm carrying in that picture?
CASTLE: Wow. So where was this picture shot?
N. SARRACINO: That was taken in the Santa Fe yard.
CASTLE: Do you remember where it was published? Was it in a newspaper?
N. SARRACINO: Yes, it was the Richmond paper.
NARRATOR'S DAUGHTER: And that one was, too, that one that we had? That was in a magazine.
CASTLE: Oh wow, a Richmond magazine?
NARRATOR'S DAUGHTER: She couldn't remember. It wasn't just Richmond.
CASTLE: Do you remember this picture that was in a magazine?
N. SARRACINO: Oh yes, that one.
CASTLE: What magazine was that in?
N. SARRACINO: The Santa Fe magazine.
CASTLE: A company magazine?
N. SARRACINO: Yes, and then it was plastered all over the newspapers, that one.
CASTLE: Do you remember what year that was taken?
N. SARRACINO: I don't even remember what year that was.
CASTLE: Because I could look it up and get copies of it from the different
newspapers, you know.NARRATOR'S DAUGHTER: Probably after she was here, between '42 and '43, I guess.
N. SARRACINO: Yes, I think that's what what's-his-name had to do, Curt.
CASTLE: I could just talk to him.
00:49:00N. SARRACINO: There were some he said he couldn't find anyway. This was in the
Richmond paper.CASTLE: [reads] "Just like the WACs, the WAVES, and the Women Marines, our women
workers on the Santa Fe have taken the places of men who have gone off to war. Nellie Arkey, engine supplier at Richmond, takes pride in her humble duties as she passes a lantern to Clyde Lam, hostler. Her co-worker Daisy L. Beardsley works diligently nearby." Cool.N. SARRACINO: This was taken at YWCA.
CASTLE: What was this for? Was this a performance for visitors?
N. SARRACINO: I guess it was like some kind of thing like Thanksgiving dinner,
they used to--CASTLE: Because that's a California Indian.
N. SARRACINO: Yes, California Indian, yes. See, we weren't married then, yet.
That's my husband right there. But this one here, this man is an Acoma man, this 00:50:00one here. His name was Alan Hunt [phonetic], but he's gone.CASTLE: Alan Hunt?
N. SARRACINO: Yes.
CASTLE: Is that Acoma dress?
N. SARRACINO: Yes. He's an Acoma.
CASTLE: What's that dance? Is this for a certain dance, this dress, this regalia?
N. SARRACINO: Yes. See, this man, that's the one that you saw right here. This
man here?CASTLE: That's Alan?
N. SARRACINO: Alan, that's him right here, and this is another Laguna man, and
then that's my husband right there. That was the time we weren't married yet.CASTLE: Did you know each other?
N. SARRACINO: No, I never knew him.
00:51:00NARRATOR'S DAUGHTER: One of her best friends was my dad's sister. She still didn't know him when he
was here, but she knew his sister, and then her brothers, I guess, knew my dad, but they never met.CASTLE: All this time.
NARRATOR'S DAUGHTER: Yes, they never met. Then she was here. But my uncle likes to tease that he was
playing the drums before he met her or whatever, he was playing the drums and my dad fell off the stage at this thing, just watching her. [laughs]CASTLE: I see. There's a lot of good pictures here.
N. SARRACINO: That was taken at the beach. Let me see there. See, this is part
of the roundhouse right here, the centerfield roundhouse. 00:52:00CASTLE: And that was in the rail yard.
N. SARRACINO: Yes. That's one of the grandfathers. His name is Paul Thomas, and
this is his brother-in-law, Tony Goat [phonetic]. This was taken at that, remember, that amusement park?NARRATOR'S DAUGHTER: In San Francisco?
N. SARRACINO: Just a little off that San Francisco beach.
CASTLE: What's that called?
FUREY: Playland.
N. SARRACINO: Yes, Playland. Yes, where the Cliff House used to be. I mean, it's
still there, I guess, the Cliff House.CASTLE: That's still there, but the amusement park isn't.
N. SARRACINO: Yes. See, that's my brother-in-law that never came back.
CASTLE: So that's taken overseas?
N. SARRACINO: That was taken overseas in the service.
NARRATOR'S DAUGHTER: Yes, and then her brother--in the other one had a picture overseas, too, which
is--he's writing to her, telling her, "These are my two buddies." 00:53:00N. SARRACINO: See, this was taken in the Santa Fe yard.
CASTLE: Oh, okay. And who's in this picture?
N. SARRACINO: That was taken, I guess, before they had it fenced. They fenced it
long after with a cyclone fence. Oh, here's the Cliff House.CASTLE: Now what's the "R" for?
N. SARRACINO: Ruth. Is that an oven? Yes.
00:54:00CASTLE: Is that a picture of a traditional--
N. SARRACINO: Yes, traditional oven. We've got a picture that was taken in
Richmond Colony; one of the ladies took a picture of that. Oh, here's that Santa Fe office, and there was an assembly hall in the second floor.CASTLE: That's where the dances were?
N. SARRACINO: Yes, they have those dances.
CASTLE: Those crazy American dances.
N. SARRACINO: Yes. And then I still have the accordion that my husband used to play.
CASTLE: Oh, a recording of him playing?
N. SARRACINO: Every time when there's some kind of a contest, like, he would
00:55:00join down at the tribal building.NARRATOR'S DAUGHTER: He was something, my dad.
N. SARRACINO: He would always come in first. [laughs]
CASTLE: Yes? He always won?
NARRATOR'S DAUGHTER: He always enjoyed himself. Yes, he used to wear that hat and play the accordion.
N. SARRACINO: There's a picture of him right there on the thing, with that sombrero.
CASTLE: So it sounds like he was a funny guy.
NARRATOR'S DAUGHTER: A very patient man.
N. SARRACINO: Yeah. I think that's taken where the Cliff
House is.This one here is my uncle, the one that was governor out there. That was taken
in San Francisco somewhere. CASTLE: Well, let's take a break. How about that? Let's stop. 00:56:00